To think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

[donutque]

Not a teacher, but my logic seems sound.

I’ve seen plenty of threads / comments on here that question if teachers are really that underpaid (often quoting 28k as a starting salary) which seems like a strange race to the bottom.

I work in finance and wouldn’t take a job for a low salary, I’m in my twenties and I’m compensated well. I believe I deserve that, I name my price when I go for jobs and won’t accept lower. This is because I’m 1) qualified 2) have a skill and the market demands me, I am in short supply.

I can see a response I may get is that
teachers, whilst good, aren’t necessarily the most intelligent or talented / high quality individuals. But IS IT ANY WONDER?! The top talent graduates and gets sucked in by the big 4 / investment banks / magic circle all because of money (I promise you that it is rare that a child just bloody loves debits and credits, has a passion for selling stock, or checking the bank statement matches the p&l) Of course, some top grads go into teaching but this is usually because of their personality type (desire to give back / do good / love of children). It’s not the common occurrence. They certainly aren’t doing it for the big pay off.

So if teachers started on, let’s say, £30k but upon qualifying were paid £50k, with a teacher with 5-10 years service being on 60/70/80/90k (no extra responsibility), I guarantee applications would be flooded. Teaching would be a career that is attractive. You’d have the best teachers, which is important. Not just for basic education but teachers are what gets your little offspring into university to become the next doctor, lawyer, politician, plumber, accountant and so on. Teachers are LITERALLY the backbone of society.

Scandi countries document well how education leads to greater GDP, and a basic understanding of economics will explain why paying teachers well is far more beneficial to the economy than anyone who says “but how do we afford it?!”

so, AIBU to think teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs?

It is a female dominated job like nursing so obviously the pay does not reflect the workload. That is the root of the issue, not whether teachers are ‘clever’ enough to earn more than 30k as some pps are insinuating. I agree wholly with OP but where would the money come from? And not to compare but all public sectors wages atm are shite. I would rather police officers get their raise now - they still start on 24k in some areas! But oh wait, are they not clever enough for a living wage??

I think the performance needs to be assessed more rigorously

How do you perceive that teacher performance is currently assessed and why is this this not rigorous enough in your opinion?

Fascinating as this is, like most teaching threads, we are all largely missing the point.

The best teachers may not know the most facts about their subject area. They may or may not have a PhD. They may or may not have done well at school themselves.

The very best, the memorable and the truly outstanding teachers build relationships. They are masters of understanding children’s motivation and guiding their passion. They are counsellors and parents and social workers, but most importantly, they give kids a connection with their learning that builds engagement, motivation and passion. And they genuinely care.

It’d be hard to create a performance or qualification- driven performance management system around being an engaging person. Buts that’s what we need.

Schmalzy nonsense. Yes teachers should build relationships with their classes, but different kids like different things, and different teachers suit different children.

And teachers shouldn't be expected to be bloody social workers and parents, they should be expected to be teachers.

Bemused at the patronising comments about teachers being low achievers. I'm not Einstein level but I'm not a complete idiot ;)

Different teachers like different kids.

Teachers should be like Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society. Inspirational figures.

Good grief. If anyone thinks they're going into teaching to be Robin Williams then they're going to be disappointed. Romanticised rubbish that bears little resemblance to the actual graft of turning up every day for the kids.

Definitely some confusion here.

top graduates aren’t those that got A*s from the top private school or who love the subject and have no interpersonal skills. this misses the argument

If you have a huge pool of candidates you can interview and pick the one who seems best (teachers have to do lots of presentations, trial teaching etc in an interview) which will be a better fit rather than the options not being huge and more of a take what you can get.

I’d also like to say my DH, a teacher, is very intelligent and a top graduate. However, he is leaving - too much work for not enough pay.

he loves maths and is doing it because he wants to make children also love maths. But that doesn’t pay the bills anymore so he’s going into the corporate world and selling his soul.

Could have been worse.
They could have gone for Whoopi Goldberg, or the white saviour that goes in to the black ghetto and inspires them to go to top universities.

Well my research scientist husband who works in pharmaceuticals below management level, with 20+ years experience earns more than twice my 14 years non management teaching salary.

I looked to move for a Statistics job recently but needed a masters to do so, I am still considering the 8K as a route out, but love my job enough to still keep doing it.

As others have said the workload is the bigger deal, I know other jobs have similar but I have worked in industry and it was so nice to walk out at 6 with nothing to worry about till 830 the next morning, like said husband does!

Can I just say - people in the corporate world are not devils who have sold their souls - no need to suggest that - we treat our staff well and we behave with integrity. Your dh might be surprised. One of my friends is a Prof at a well-regarded Uni - they invited back a group of past PhD students for a reunion/info-sharing gathering - what surprised them all most, was the corporate world wasn't anywhere near as cut-throat as academia. Still, you believe what you want.

@drinkeatsmile i am in the corporate world, doing the devil’s work. We aren’t devils, just their servants 😁

Good on your husband. I am 33k with 27 years experience
Our graduates are on 21k
It's like saying all nurses get 50k cause a few do

Do you have kids op? Because in experience stellar careers can crash and burn when you get pregnant. Teaching offers stability. Most people don't earn a teachers salary, so in the real world where very few people earn £90k with 10 years experience I don't think it's a goer. You could say the same for almost anything, nursing, junior doctor even barristers are on crap money early in a career. £30k is a good starting salary. Perhaps it should be more but it's not finance where people are sacked if they're not generating revenue.

Because in experience stellar careers can crash and burn when you get pregnant. Teaching offers stability

Teaching really isn’t family friendly. We lose women of childbearing age at an alarming rate and the proportion of teachers working part time is lower then in other professions due to the shit deal part time teachers often get.

Isn't that because of how badly run schools etc are, not the nature of the job itself?
Given that full-time teachers work long hours I can well imagine a PT teacher having to do the same, nullifying the benefit of being PT in the first place. Even worse when there are not PT jobs, they're forced to teach supply which has it's own set of challenges w.r.t behaviour management, not knowing a class, etc.
Far better to quit and change career.

He doesn't HAVE to go into the corporate world though. He could become a tutor. Especially for Maths, much in demand
For all your dramatics regarding the 'evil' of the corporate world you must be quite money-minded to work in finance. As you claim to anyway - I don't know how someone who's in the field can be so naïve about economics and how these salaries are paid. Are you in HR or Ops, perhaps?
Maybe you want your husband to be the same, so a 'caring' profession public sector salary will never be enough for him anyway.

Wherever I have worked (primary) I was always the only full-timer with school age children, and was in the minority of all teaching staff by having children. It’s not remotely family-friendly.

(I trained once my children started primary, so I have no experience of ‘child free’ teaching, nor of teaching through the pre-school years)

This ☝️

They are counsellors and parents and social workers

No. In a world where there are actual parents, trained counsellors and professional social workers, teachers should be doing what they are trained and employed to do - teach - and all those other roles should be done by those meant, trained and employed to do them.

Teacher here (ex!)
I was in the classroom for 15y. I started in 2007 and my wage had yearly gentle increments (£1500). Then from 2012
to 2021 when I left my salary was the same!

I took the plunge and this year will earn a six fig. salary from tutoring - it has simply blown my mind how incredibly underpaid teaching is.

If I'm honest, it never was about the money. The demands just became outrageous and that's why teachers leave- the absolute nonsense pressures which have zero relation to teaching!

They really really shouldn't.
This is the kind of nonsense trainee teacher applicants write in their personal statements and whilst it's lovely, it's really not the most important thing.