To think that there would be less anti private school

[Poopoolittlekitten]

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status?

send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions.
And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees!

YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

'This just shows your ignorance on private schools'

Pretty sure I've mentioned before that I work across Secondaries, both private and state across UK & overseas Brit schools.

Having a different opinion from you on something doesn't = ignorance, just a different opinion.
I'm not 'jealous', or envious, or ignorant. People make choices for their kids as they see fit. But I am tired of the moaning about fees, or potential loss of charity status and all of that.
And I do believe that anti private school sentiment comes from that for most people... not some deep seated hatred of people with money.

@Poopoolittlekitten - if you are claiming “expert” status what is your exact role please?

Levying VAT on school fees would have been a contravention of directly applicable EU law so none of our neighbours do it. Which countries do charge VAT on school fees and at what rate? For example, Saudi Arabia at 5%. If we end up an anomaly internationally doing this, what will the likely impact be?

Where are the impact studies on the whole education sector as a result of the proposal? Where are the impact studies on children? Staff in the private sector? How many teachers are in the private sector in the UK? How many do they hope will move to the state sector?

There is just zero clarity and the whole thing has not been thought through at all. That is my issue with the proposal.

Not only do EU countries not charge VAT on education, quite a few of them actually subsidise private education.

Brexit keeps on giving, doesn’t it!

We are going to have so much fun in the coming years with whatever government gets into power messing with existing protective EU legislation.

'Levying VAT on school fees would have been a contravention of directly applicable EU law so none of our neighbours do it.'

We are n't in the EU anymore - and taking away fake charity status isn't the same as levying VAT.

Even a lot of Tories think that giving private schools 'charity' status is taking the piss, but I do understand why parents paying fees would prefer not to have to pay more.
It's up to the schools though. They charge what they like - and fees are rising anyway.

“We are n't in the EU anymore - and taking away fake charity status isn't the same as levying VAT.”

You don’t need to take away charitable status. You can encourage the hurdle to keep charitable status to become higher - that benefits the local community and the spirit of going more local.

It isn’t a good time to a send a message to the rest of the world that the UK is attacking its already struggling education sector - in a way that is very atypical for a country like the UK. It just means less talent from Asia and Africa will arrive to fill our e.g. vacancies for doctors in the NHS and in tech. Those persons will not take kindly to education not being valued in a country. And that is essentially what this will translate to. And actual attack by government on the private sector.

As you point out @Poopoolittlekitten - private schools are already raising fees etc. Why mount an actual attack on them when the solution is to improve state education, value and pay teachers more, help kids with SEN properly, lower the size of classes. ACTUALLY INVEST IN OUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE. ENSURE THE NHS MEETS THE NEEDS OF CHILDREN. It is not all down to schools. Many people will have put their struggling children into the private sector because of the pandemic. Do not attack these people, it is not going to be worth it.

'I don't mind a 50% payrise if they stop packing the private schools with special needs kids who might slow progress down. '

er, okay. So double the fees you pay just get rid of any SEN kids back into State? nice. Is that you Rees-Mogg??

The OP is literally moaning about how people discuss things in other threads she doesn't like yet you have no similar advice for her?

Yes, you are being completely and utterly unreasonable. It's difficult to imagine how entitled you must be to expect others to self-sensor based on whether their socio-economic status conforms to your arbitrary definition which I suspect was based on little more than 'anyone better-off than me'.

this has been done to DEATH. Why cant we just continue on that one....

Private school isn't just for 'posh' people. Fees outside of London can be just over 10k a year, which is still a lot of money but affordable to many average middle class families. And a large proportion of kids at private schools are on bursaries/scholarships, including those from less well off backgrounds/state schools who wouldn't otherwise be able to go to private school. So YABU to believe all private schools are for the rich and privileged.

YABU. I'm pretty sure that the reason most anti-private-school people are against private schools is because they are against the whole principle of their existence, not because some people moan about fee increases.

I haven't read the full thread. Got as far as page 3 on my phone and was completely confused! I don't really understand the post or many subsequent ones really!! (and I have a PhD and experienced both state and private!!)

I guess everyone can do what they like! But you do sound a wee bit bitter/rude/angry. Not a great advert for the benefits of state education really..

(my children aren't going private, but I respect the choices of my friends who are sending theirs. And actually, in some ways, I do think private are better - mainly in the extra curricular activities they can offer. But I don't think the solution is the status quo - rather I think state schools should be better funded so they can provide equality of opportunity re extra curricular...)

' I'm pretty sure that the reason most anti-private-school people are against private schools is because they are against the whole principle of their existence, not because some people moan about fee increases.'

I think the moaning and complaining about fees and the endless 'Whatever shall we do!?' posts are certainly not helping...

Literally every week it's the same thread / same axe to grind under the guise of a slightly different title.

I think the moaning and complaining about fees and the endless 'Whatever shall we do!?' posts are certainly not helping...

But it's irrelevant. Either you're against private schools or you're not. If you're not, then people being a bit pissed off about fees going up is no different from people being a bit pissed off about anything expensive that they are used to being able to afford (which you maybe aren't able to afford). I own a house. If my mortgage payments went up a lot, I'd be pissed off about it. Am I not allowed to say that, on the grounds that not everyone can afford to buy a house?

‘Literally every week it's the same thread / same axe to grind under the guise of a slightly different title.’

no grinding of axes. But it is a frequent topic here for obvious reasons.
just be thankful that it’s not another dog thread…

‘Private school isn't just for 'posh' people’

Mostly though…

This is just stupid. So no one can complain about their pimple as someone rise suffers from having a facial deformity. Can't complain about their car breaking down because other people don't have the luxury of owning a car. How dare their be a thread about people parking across a driveway when there we people who would only dream of living in a house with a driveway. Ffs. MN is not for only certain socioeconomic groups. If you don't like hearing about someone's 5 star holiday because you can barely afford to go camping then scroll on that thread isn't for you. But it is for others on here. Sheesh. It's not all about you.

The poster you quote is exactly right.

Govt interfering in education is the most important problem in society today.

Obedience training is good for Govt but bad for citizens (sod being a subject).

Monopolies are always bad. Yes Govt education is a monopoly because most can’t afford to go elsewhere.

Education is the worst monopoly because it’s about control. The Jesuit’s famously knew that.

The parent and the child should be customers, not supplicants, and should be treated as such.

ALL charities should lose tax free status, not just schools. Tax free status for charities is abusive, like tax free aristocrats in pre revolutionary France.

People are anti private school because the establishment is anti private school.

Nothing to do with the behaviour of anyone.

What is a pity, despite the number of threads about it, is that people don't grasp that charitable status (which not all private schools have) is worth about £200 per pupil per head. If it could be easily relinquished, without winding up the charity (selling major assets at proper market rates and donating proceeds to another similarly aimed charity). If there is a new proposal on how this would be effected - because allowing charity assets to just be converted to private ownership is a very slippery slope indeed, almost a charter for abuse - but removing the provision of education as a charitable aim (as is the current legal provision, and alteration of which would impact on all charities which provide education)

VAT on fees is unrelated to charitable status. Since BREXIT, we can set our own sales tax and are no longer bound by "no taxation on education" which is the EU stance.

Both Labour and some elements within the Tory party are in favour of VAT on fees, so I think that will come in. It's just a question of when and at what rate. And what happens to nursery and university fees (currently rely on same exemption)

You are right. But people aren’t going to get that because those who raise the issue don’t want them to think about it.

Tax benefits were removed from ALL charities then schools being charities would stop being an issue.

But then lots of talking heads enjoy the status of working for tax advantages employers who advocate for more tax for everyone else.

@Fivethirtyeight
F

Totally agree, parents and children are the customers

Op we are weighing up private schools out of desperation because one dc has some sen and our salary can't cover it, we would have to pool at remortgage or something.
I would have every right to post here "moaning" about labour messing with fees whens schools can still not accommodate sen