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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that there would be less anti private school

705 replies

Poopoolittlekitten · 02/05/2023 07:36

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status?

send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions.
And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees!

YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

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ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 12:44

I'm pissed off that Heinz beans cost £1.40 a tin. I can afford it but that doesn't mean I can't complain about the price rise.

Same goes for energy prices, fuel and everything else.

ichundich · 13/05/2023 13:22

Intergalacticcatharsis · 13/05/2023 12:09

Those of you genuinely opposed to private education as a matter of principle did you really send your own DC to the local state in special measures or with other significant issues. Or are you in the Tony Benn and wife category? You are so privileged anyway and intellectual and perfect that you became a governor and turned the school around?

My point is that private education is just one small facet of the whole story. You could just as well come out and say let’s whack capital gains tax on all those rich parents who bought in the catchments of all the high performing state schools in the country when they move? And them only? Would that be OK?
Like I said, I am not self interested because I understand the game that is the school system in this country. But let’s not pretend it is not a game that the privileged know how to play, one way or another. And that is my point.

Indeed. If you live in / can afford to move to the catchment of a decent state school or have a kid who is blessed with an IQ of 160 and will therefore excel anywhere, you are arguing from a position of privilege. A lot of people send their children to private school not 'because it's the done thing in their circle' but out of sheer desparation. The current inequalities in education will not be solved by banning or taxing private schools, but by improving state schools so that they became a viable option of the majority of families.

Betterbear · 13/05/2023 13:32

Personally speaking, I know far more people obtaining better qualifications by attending a good state school. Maybe there is an assumption if you are paying the fees, the work stops there, but it guarantees nothing in reality.

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 13:38

Of course I'm arguing from a position of privilege! As is every single private school parent. However much they drive beaten up old Volvos and chuck the tent in the boot and drive down to Cornwall for their holidays.

ichundich · 13/05/2023 13:40

Betterbear · 13/05/2023 13:32

Personally speaking, I know far more people obtaining better qualifications by attending a good state school. Maybe there is an assumption if you are paying the fees, the work stops there, but it guarantees nothing in reality.

Well of course, since 93% of children are educated at state schools.

Another76543 · 13/05/2023 13:41

Betterbear · 13/05/2023 13:32

Personally speaking, I know far more people obtaining better qualifications by attending a good state school. Maybe there is an assumption if you are paying the fees, the work stops there, but it guarantees nothing in reality.

The figures show that this is simply not the case overall. Yes, there will be some state schools who get very high grades, in the same way that some private schools get low grades.

To think that there would be less anti private school
ichundich · 13/05/2023 13:42

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 13:38

Of course I'm arguing from a position of privilege! As is every single private school parent. However much they drive beaten up old Volvos and chuck the tent in the boot and drive down to Cornwall for their holidays.

So are you going to sell your house for less than the market rate for a 'fairer society'?

Changechangechanging · 13/05/2023 13:51

So are you going to sell your house for less than the market rate for a 'fairer society'

Are you? Will you throw more into the benefits pot to make sure children with parents who are disabled, for example, get the same opportunities as your children? Will you not pay for tutoring so your child doesn't have any kind of advantage over those children who's parents can't afford it? Will you sponsor the fees for dancing classes for a child whose parents can't afford it? Will you pay for a child to go on a ski trip alongcwithhtheir close group of friends? Will you go camping rather than on a 5* all inclusive holiday to the Caribbean so your child doesn't have that opportunity over another child?

How do we make thins equal for all children? What are you prepared to sacrifice to make that happen?

ichundich · 13/05/2023 14:12

Changechangechanging · 13/05/2023 13:51

So are you going to sell your house for less than the market rate for a 'fairer society'

Are you? Will you throw more into the benefits pot to make sure children with parents who are disabled, for example, get the same opportunities as your children? Will you not pay for tutoring so your child doesn't have any kind of advantage over those children who's parents can't afford it? Will you sponsor the fees for dancing classes for a child whose parents can't afford it? Will you pay for a child to go on a ski trip alongcwithhtheir close group of friends? Will you go camping rather than on a 5* all inclusive holiday to the Caribbean so your child doesn't have that opportunity over another child?

How do we make thins equal for all children? What are you prepared to sacrifice to make that happen?

I pay tax and have been voting Labour all my life because I would actually like it if the wealth in this country was more evenly distributed. I'm not sure why you're asking private school parents to give up their 'privilege' (mine is that I live in the catchment of two failing state schools) whilst you're not prepared to give up yours?

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 14:19

It fascinates me how many Mumsnet private school parents seem to live in areas of social deprivation.....

ZittingBiting · 13/05/2023 14:19

Betterbear · 13/05/2023 13:32

Personally speaking, I know far more people obtaining better qualifications by attending a good state school. Maybe there is an assumption if you are paying the fees, the work stops there, but it guarantees nothing in reality.

But..it's fact that most Dr's, barristers and journalists for example attended non-state schools.

And most of the Tory government.

Dobby123456 · 13/05/2023 14:20

whumpthereitis · 13/05/2023 12:38

Indeed. I just don’t see how ‘I went to X school and still made it!’ is a convincing argument against private schools. Sure, some will succeed despite their school, but how many sink? And succeeding despite your school is a problem. I said it another thread, but why do kids need to go through the educational equivalent of the hunger games to receive an education? Surely it’s preferable that they are indeed ‘spoon fed’, otherwise known as ‘supported in realizing their potential’?

Show quote history

I'm quite happy for my child to be 'spoon fed' useful information, like spellings and times tables, rather than trying to figure out how to dodge the violent pupils around their school. Seems problems have been made worse by covid.

ichundich · 13/05/2023 15:05

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 14:19

It fascinates me how many Mumsnet private school parents seem to live in areas of social deprivation.....

Why? Because it doesn't match your stereotype?

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 15:22

"Why? Because it doesn't match your stereotype?"
No. Because it doesn't match either my lived experience or the data.

DdraigGoch · 13/05/2023 16:51

Betterbear · 13/05/2023 13:32

Personally speaking, I know far more people obtaining better qualifications by attending a good state school. Maybe there is an assumption if you are paying the fees, the work stops there, but it guarantees nothing in reality.

Or maybe many private schools offer things other than just exam results.

Barbadossunset · 13/05/2023 17:00

No. Because it doesn't match either my lived experience or the data.

What data?

DdraigGoch · 13/05/2023 17:05

arlequin · 13/05/2023 08:48

@ichundich yes but it's still a tiny minority who are in this situation.

Even at a cheap school fees are 12k a year. 2 kids and that's 24k.

How many people are spending 24k on holidays and cars? A new 20k car every year? It just isn't happening. So yes of course if you're shelling out that money you're making sacrifices (I am at the moment with nursery fees which I can't do anything about). But you've started with a huge salary way above average.

I can imagine though that the difference in mortgage payments between a house in the catchment of a top state school, and a house that isn't but is at least commutable to a private school could easily be more than the fees. So if you're buying your way into the catchment area you're just as privileged as those paying fees.

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 17:25

@Barbadossunset "
What data?"

The data about the socio economic make up of the catchment of what Mumsnet call "failing" schools. It does not match the socioeconomic status of private school parents. And yet-that's where they all seem to live!

Changechangechanging · 13/05/2023 17:28

I'm not sure why you're asking private school parents to give up their 'privilege' (mine is that I live in the catchment of two failing state schools) whilst you're not prepared to give up yours?

and what privilege is it you perceive I personally have?

Barbadossunset · 13/05/2023 17:58

CurlewKate. Thank you for answering my question.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 13/05/2023 20:10

How do we make thins equal for all children? What are you prepared to sacrifice to make that happen?

To make things equal, if you can; the answer is to improve it for the children at the bottom end, to be able to move up. Not to pull the children at the top end down to the bottom. Equal should mean everyone has a chance, not no-one has a chance.

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 21:43

"Equal should mean everyone has a chance, not no-one has a chance."

I agree. However-I don't think "no one has a chance" at state school"!!

ichundich · 13/05/2023 21:57

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 14:19

It fascinates me how many Mumsnet private school parents seem to live in areas of social deprivation.....

Out of the 81 schools inspected in the East of England in 2021/22, a total of 19 was rated as "Requires Improvement" and 4 as "Inadequate". That's more than a quarter of schools that are failing.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-inspections-statistical-commentaries-2021-to-2022/schools-commentary-july-2022-schools-that-require-improvement#data-3

Schools commentary July 2022: schools that require improvement

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-inspections-statistical-commentaries-2021-to-2022/schools-commentary-july-2022-schools-that-require-improvement#data-3

CurlewKate · 13/05/2023 23:18

It's the way you tell 'em of course. 88% of schools are good or outstanding.

Original poster
Poopoolittlekitten · 13/05/2023 23:44

‘You do not need to attack private schools to improve state education’

we don’t need to be giving businesses that have paying customers, which happen to cater to the wealthy, tax breaks aimed at charities.
,

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