Page 26 | To think that there would be less anti private school

Poopoolittlekitten · 2023-05-02T06:36:53+00:00

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status? send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions. And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head. YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees! YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

Dobby123456 · 15/05/2023 11:29

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 11:00

@Dobby123456 "I think schools state and private have changed quite a bit since the 1950's!"

Of course they have. Almost entirely for the better in both sectors. But my point remains.

You might want to find some more recent evidence to back up your point, is what I'm suggesting!

Dobby123456 · 15/05/2023 11:31

DrMarciaFieldstone · 13/05/2023 20:10

How do we make thins equal for all children? What are you prepared to sacrifice to make that happen?

To make things equal, if you can; the answer is to improve it for the children at the bottom end, to be able to move up. Not to pull the children at the top end down to the bottom. Equal should mean everyone has a chance, not no-one has a chance.

Exactly

Dobby123456 · 15/05/2023 11:33

I wasn't complaining on here about school fees going up because I didn't want to be insensitive. But given all the grade threads and comments, I no longer care.

Original poster

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:45

'I wasn't complaining on here about school fees going up because I didn't want to be insensitive.'

Oh good for you. Well done. if only others were the same.

OP posts:

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 11:47

@Dobby123456 "You might want to find some more recent evidence to back up your point, is what I'm suggesting!"
Not sure why-I did say Prince Charles downwards! Anyway, I could cite my godson, who was relentlessly bullied in well known prep and public schools very recently. But I was making a general, not a particular point.

Original poster

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:54

So at the weekend I listened to a woman defending going private ( your money love, do what you want) because the 2 secondaries by her were 'awful' and she started trotting out all the things she' heard' - violence, overcrowding, police being called, kids taking drugs to and from school - about them.
All of it was rubbish. Both are very good schools, with flawless reputations, flawless behaviour, and I'd be stunned if the next Ofsted didn't rate them both outstanding next time.
My DS goes to the one her DC was actually allocated and it is a brilliant, diverse school with great teachers etc. but she could not be persuaded otherwise.
The results were 'awful' too apparently - they're not. They're well above the national average for state schools, but as the schools aren't selective the results reflect that.

It came down to pure snobbery. And yest she had a little moan about the cost...

OP posts:

ichundich · 15/05/2023 12:02

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:54

So at the weekend I listened to a woman defending going private ( your money love, do what you want) because the 2 secondaries by her were 'awful' and she started trotting out all the things she' heard' - violence, overcrowding, police being called, kids taking drugs to and from school - about them.
All of it was rubbish. Both are very good schools, with flawless reputations, flawless behaviour, and I'd be stunned if the next Ofsted didn't rate them both outstanding next time.
My DS goes to the one her DC was actually allocated and it is a brilliant, diverse school with great teachers etc. but she could not be persuaded otherwise.
The results were 'awful' too apparently - they're not. They're well above the national average for state schools, but as the schools aren't selective the results reflect that.

It came down to pure snobbery. And yest she had a little moan about the cost...

What has your anecdotal experience got to do with anything?

whumpthereitis · 15/05/2023 12:09

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:54

So at the weekend I listened to a woman defending going private ( your money love, do what you want) because the 2 secondaries by her were 'awful' and she started trotting out all the things she' heard' - violence, overcrowding, police being called, kids taking drugs to and from school - about them.
All of it was rubbish. Both are very good schools, with flawless reputations, flawless behaviour, and I'd be stunned if the next Ofsted didn't rate them both outstanding next time.
My DS goes to the one her DC was actually allocated and it is a brilliant, diverse school with great teachers etc. but she could not be persuaded otherwise.
The results were 'awful' too apparently - they're not. They're well above the national average for state schools, but as the schools aren't selective the results reflect that.

It came down to pure snobbery. And yest she had a little moan about the cost...

Okay, and? Just ignore her then. She has her thoughts, you have yours. She isn’t required to agree with you any more than you need to agree with her. Just get on with your own life.

whumpthereitis · 15/05/2023 12:14

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 11:25

@whumpthereitis I don't think that people use private education because they want to raise their children to grind the faces of the poor. I wish people would do me the same courtesy and accept that I hold a principled stance on private education and am not remotely envious. God, I'm fed up of hearing about the politics of envy.

I’m not assuming you are envious, but plenty of people are more…fluid, when it comes to principles (in all aspects of life). Once you’ve encountered more than a few it’s easy to become disillusioned and yes, skeptical.

ichundich · 15/05/2023 12:20

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:54

So at the weekend I listened to a woman defending going private ( your money love, do what you want) because the 2 secondaries by her were 'awful' and she started trotting out all the things she' heard' - violence, overcrowding, police being called, kids taking drugs to and from school - about them.
All of it was rubbish. Both are very good schools, with flawless reputations, flawless behaviour, and I'd be stunned if the next Ofsted didn't rate them both outstanding next time.
My DS goes to the one her DC was actually allocated and it is a brilliant, diverse school with great teachers etc. but she could not be persuaded otherwise.
The results were 'awful' too apparently - they're not. They're well above the national average for state schools, but as the schools aren't selective the results reflect that.

It came down to pure snobbery. And yest she had a little moan about the cost...

Also you describe your son's school as "brilliant" and expect it to be rated Outstanding at the next Ofsted inspection. It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.

Original poster

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 12:33

'It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.'

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege. But their choice. just don't complain about the cost, complain about fake tax breaks being removed, and act as if they have no choice when most schools in England are rated good or above.
I think my DS school is very good, but the pupils aren't are leaving with 10 or 11 grade 9's a Gcse's. because that's what happens when you create an environment that accepts all children, of all abilities and backgrounds, who have different skills. And are handheld and coached through exams.

The point to my story was that the BS some private parents talk about state schools, is false and annoying.

OP posts:

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 12:35

"All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys."
The think is- this just isn't true. Otherwise, private school parents would be happy to use the 88% of state schools that are good or outstanding. Oh, apart from the fact that they all seem to live in a cluster in the catchment of the RI or Unsatisfactory ones. Despite the fact that they tend to be in areas of significant social deprivation...not the usual habitat of the sort of parents in a position to access private education!

ichundich · 15/05/2023 12:37

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 12:33

'It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.'

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege. But their choice. just don't complain about the cost, complain about fake tax breaks being removed, and act as if they have no choice when most schools in England are rated good or above.
I think my DS school is very good, but the pupils aren't are leaving with 10 or 11 grade 9's a Gcse's. because that's what happens when you create an environment that accepts all children, of all abilities and backgrounds, who have different skills. And are handheld and coached through exams.

The point to my story was that the BS some private parents talk about state schools, is false and annoying.

So you know the motivation of everyone who sends their kid to private school now 🙄.

ichundich · 15/05/2023 12:44

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 12:35

"All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys."
The think is- this just isn't true. Otherwise, private school parents would be happy to use the 88% of state schools that are good or outstanding. Oh, apart from the fact that they all seem to live in a cluster in the catchment of the RI or Unsatisfactory ones. Despite the fact that they tend to be in areas of significant social deprivation...not the usual habitat of the sort of parents in a position to access private education!

Not true. Independent schools thrive particularly in areas of lower funding for state schools. London receives the highest funding per pupil in England. https://www.statista.com/statistics/381745/education-expenditure-per-pupil-england-region-uk/

England spending per pupil by region 2022 | Statista

In 2021/22, education spending per pupil at schools in England was highest in Inner London, with approximately 8,860 British pounds spent per pupil in this area.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/381745/education-expenditure-per-pupil-england-region-uk

Dobby123456 · 15/05/2023 12:53

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 11:54

So at the weekend I listened to a woman defending going private ( your money love, do what you want) because the 2 secondaries by her were 'awful' and she started trotting out all the things she' heard' - violence, overcrowding, police being called, kids taking drugs to and from school - about them.
All of it was rubbish. Both are very good schools, with flawless reputations, flawless behaviour, and I'd be stunned if the next Ofsted didn't rate them both outstanding next time.
My DS goes to the one her DC was actually allocated and it is a brilliant, diverse school with great teachers etc. but she could not be persuaded otherwise.
The results were 'awful' too apparently - they're not. They're well above the national average for state schools, but as the schools aren't selective the results reflect that.

It came down to pure snobbery. And yest she had a little moan about the cost...

So, at the weekend I read this awful thread on mumsnet where the OP kept whining about how awful the parents are who use private schools and how she wishes they would all shut up about even though she started the thread herself ....

Another76543 · 15/05/2023 12:59

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 12:33

'It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.'

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege. But their choice. just don't complain about the cost, complain about fake tax breaks being removed, and act as if they have no choice when most schools in England are rated good or above.
I think my DS school is very good, but the pupils aren't are leaving with 10 or 11 grade 9's a Gcse's. because that's what happens when you create an environment that accepts all children, of all abilities and backgrounds, who have different skills. And are handheld and coached through exams.

The point to my story was that the BS some private parents talk about state schools, is false and annoying.

“Buy grades”. This old chestnut again. Private school children have to sit the exams in exactly the same way as state school children. Their parents can’t just hand over a load of cash to guarantee high grades. The children have to be capable of actually passing the exams.

”Handheld and coached through exams”. You mean taught properly? Stretched enough to reach their full potential?

purpleboy · 15/05/2023 13:11

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 12:33

'It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.'

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege. But their choice. just don't complain about the cost, complain about fake tax breaks being removed, and act as if they have no choice when most schools in England are rated good or above.
I think my DS school is very good, but the pupils aren't are leaving with 10 or 11 grade 9's a Gcse's. because that's what happens when you create an environment that accepts all children, of all abilities and backgrounds, who have different skills. And are handheld and coached through exams.

The point to my story was that the BS some private parents talk about state schools, is false and annoying.

This just shows your ignorance on private schools, which is fair enough if you've never used them, but the sneering and judging comes more from you and often other state school parents that it does from the private parents.
I don't send my dc there to "buy their grades" although I've no doubt they will do much better in private than in our local oversubscribed state schools, they are not naturally academic and get a lot of extra help in school, help they wouldn't get in state.
Also just because the majority of kids come from similar financially well off homes doesn't mean their ability is the same, so again another bizarre judgemental comment from you not based in reality.
Honestly, why are you so bothered how others choice to spend their money? It's so bizarre.

Another76543 · 15/05/2023 13:18

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 12:35

"All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys."
The think is- this just isn't true. Otherwise, private school parents would be happy to use the 88% of state schools that are good or outstanding. Oh, apart from the fact that they all seem to live in a cluster in the catchment of the RI or Unsatisfactory ones. Despite the fact that they tend to be in areas of significant social deprivation...not the usual habitat of the sort of parents in a position to access private education!

OFSTED “good” or “outstanding” doesn’t necessarily mean much these days. Even lots of head teachers and others involved in education are saying that OFSTED is no longer fit for purpose. Some previously outstanding schools went 15 years with no inspection for example.

whumpthereitis · 15/05/2023 13:34

Poopoolittlekitten · 15/05/2023 12:33

'It's therefore a bit rich to call private school parents "privileged". All they want is the same great school experience that your son enjoys.'

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege. But their choice. just don't complain about the cost, complain about fake tax breaks being removed, and act as if they have no choice when most schools in England are rated good or above.
I think my DS school is very good, but the pupils aren't are leaving with 10 or 11 grade 9's a Gcse's. because that's what happens when you create an environment that accepts all children, of all abilities and backgrounds, who have different skills. And are handheld and coached through exams.

The point to my story was that the BS some private parents talk about state schools, is false and annoying.

And some also think your tirades against private school are annoying. That doesn’t stop you any more than it’s gong stop them. You can’t dictate how parents choose to educate their children, and nor can you dictate what they speak about. What you can do is not reads threads on the subject, turn over to a different tv/radio channel and/or excuse yourself from a conversation. Beyond that it’s on you to suck it up.

Intergalacticcatharsis · 15/05/2023 13:35

“No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege.”

Firstly, you can buy grades in the state sector quite easily by using tutors or even getting free help from educated parents or older siblings. The way university admissions are heading you may then even be at an advantage doing that…. If the child is educationally motivated and the school streams often that type of child who is also academic can get plenty of attention and advantages in the state sector (good schools value the right parents too).

Secondly, tons of state school catchment expensive housing is all about keeping the “riff raff” out. And purchasing such a house is enjoying your privilege.

It is simply factually incorrect to “state” this only happens in the private sector (not the “state” sector).

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 13:52

"Secondly, tons of state school catchment expensive housing is all about keeping the “riff raff” out. And purchasing such a house is enjoying your privilege."

I have no evidence that this is not true, of course. But I PERSONALLY have never seen it happen. I suspect it's largely an urban legend. I speak as someone who has been involved in a lot of schools in a lot of roles for a lot of years. And I live in a area where there are a lot of private and state schools of varying levels.

Intergalacticcatharsis · 15/05/2023 15:51

@CurlewKate “I speak as someone who has been involved in a lot of schools in a lot of roles for a lot of years.”

Really? And you don’t realise that people with money buy or rent in the catchment of certain schools? Not because the “schools” are Ofsted Outstanding or Good (and all paperwork is completed well), but because the whole school community works well together. The whole school community consists of teaching staff, management, pupils AND THEIR PARENTS. All schools know this and if you really work in schools, you also know this.

You are really going to pretend you don’t realise that educationally motivated parents use house price selection to be around other educationally motivated parents?

There are so many tactics state schools themselves can use to attract the right parents too. If you do work in schools, are you going to feign utter ignorance in this regard too?

CurlewKate · 15/05/2023 16:01

@Intergalacticcatharsis I'm I am well aware of stealth selection-as I said down thread, I am opposed to that too. I did say that I have personally never come across house purchase-renting -but that's not strictly true-I know of a few people who speculatively moved to areas with grammar schools when their children were very small and a couple who tried the temporary renting thing. One of them got caught. Incidentally- I think the approved Mumsnet response to posts like yours is "Did you mean to be so rude?"

Intergalacticcatharsis · 15/05/2023 16:20

Pointing out flaws in the system, hypocrisy and disingenuity does not constitute rudeness my dear. In fact, I strongly disagree with your premise in any event- Mumsnet is about healthy debate. Not firing cheap personal shots back when you run out of counter arguments.

Changechangechanging · 15/05/2023 17:23

No, they want to buy grades, keep their kids away from the riff raff and enjoy privilege

You can’t buy grades. You might end up a grade higher than you would in state but it’s not the difference between grade 3 and grade 9. Kids find their level. And just so you’re clear, when you exam mark, you mark blind - a paper appears in front of you on the screen, you mark it with your mark scheme, you submit it and another appears. You can’t return to your previous paper. There are no names, no school details and in most subjects, you will mark a few questions but not all of them. You certainly won’t be marking a couple of full papers for one subject. The only exception to blind marking I’m aware of is the MFL speaking and anything with course work that is sent directly to an examiner but even then, you are bound by a mark scheme and checks on your work (commonly referred to as ‘seeds’). It’s insulting to suggest grades can be bought - private school kids work hard for their grades same as state school kids.