To think that there would be less anti private school

[Poopoolittlekitten]

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status?

send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions.
And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees!

YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

I have a friend who's a teacher who grew up in a different part of Europe. She's confused as to why people here see education as a competition. She claims where she grew up they were on this educational journey together. Children worked more in groups and not so exam focused. Here everybody worries about how we'll everybody else is doing and gets upset that they're not getting higher grades even though they didn't turn up to class.

Parents who send their children to private schools subsidise state education. Dry your eyes

It is the Labour’s party’s equivalent of Brexit for the Tories - the idea has been there since the 60s or even earlier. It is a way to get some of the far left in the party on board with Starmer’s other more centrist policies. Apparently it is “fully costed” which is rubbish.
Nobody gives a hoot about impact on children as a result of the policy. It is very much like Brexit and we all saw what happened there. It is not costed, it has not been thought through at all and it makes no sense on a rational level whatsoever.

Personally I don't have an issue with parents choosing private schools if that's what they want, although systemically it would be better if we could have decent well-funded schools available to all.

I do find it annoying when some private school parents seem completely blind to their own privilege by making out that they are superior parents because they "sacrifice" foreign holidays and new cars to send their kids abroad when the vast majority of parents could (and do) "sacrifice" such things and still be nowhere near capable of affording private school things. They seem completely unaware of how other people live.

The hand-wringing about contextual offers is also irritating, as if they are being given to students of the leafy grammar school down the road rather than the reality of bright kids from far less privileged backgrounds who are probably equally or more capable than some of their private-school counterparts but have lacked educational and cultural opportunities because of the circumstances of their birth. As I said, excellent, properly-funded schools for all would be far preferable.

But what is the cost of the average foreign holiday these days? Anything between 2 and 6k, I would imagine. A new car costs 20k and over; even if you lease it it's around 4k per year. That's not nothing, and if you can afford those things you shouldn't moan about parents who would rather spend that money on education.

@ichundich yes but it's still a tiny minority who are in this situation.

Even at a cheap school fees are 12k a year. 2 kids and that's 24k.

How many people are spending 24k on holidays and cars? A new 20k car every year? It just isn't happening. So yes of course if you're shelling out that money you're making sacrifices (I am at the moment with nursery fees which I can't do anything about). But you've started with a huge salary way above average.

And a 6k holiday? That is only for very rich people.

A mum I know told me that her 15k a year private school wasn't too bad as she would have had to pay wrap around in the state sector. But the private school also charged for wrap around on top of fees... and way more than state schools. So I don't understand that logic at all.

Probably feels like she had to justify a personal decision to other people.

At the end of the day, some people earn a lot more money than others, and they’ll spend it how they see fit. MN threads aren’t going to change that.

Private schools have longer school days. Ours is from 8.40 until 16.20 and free after school and homework clubs until 6.15.

But my point is most people don't have those expensive foreign holidays and new cars and still ate nowhere near the position of paying for private schools. It's not a case of giving those things up so you can prioritise your child's education as some people like to sanctimoniously post they do. Anybody who can afford private school fees at all is wealthy. Most people don't have £30,000 a year going spare.

DH and I work in the public sector. We have one camping holiday in France most years. Our cars are both over 15 years old. Private school wouldn't be on our radar, like most people, but it's not because we care less about our children and spend money on other things instead.

I'm sure lots of private school parents don't think like this but it crops up time and again on MN and it's tiresome that these people seem to think they are better parents when in reality they're just wealthy.

@DrMarciaFieldstone no she was encouraging us to go along to an open day!

I am a private school teacher so I really don't have a chip on my shoulder.
But a great example.l:
An elderly family friend likes to go on about how she educated her 2 DC at boarding school (60k per year at the time for the 2) but another local family went to Disney world every year and they had different priorities.

Yes, but that family didn't inherit a whack of money to fund it and Disney World certainly doesn't cost 60k. You could go about 12 times for that...

@ichundich this one is 8.45-3.15 and breakfast club is £7 and after school club £7 per hour (we'd need at least 2!). So on top of £15k it's getting a bit ridiculous.

I'm not at all anti private school if I could afford it but it's just not realistic for vast majority.

The wrap around care is more reliable though, state clubs can close at the drop of a hat, childminders can stop working or be ill, and oddly they can be cheaper than most regular ASC’s. There’s another post where PP is paying £22.50 per child for ASC daily; it’s £5 for before and after school at my DC private school. Basically it doesn’t cost much more than the fees for them to stay longer when I need to work. And it’s that reliability which has allowed me to stay in my job.

For us, it was just a continuation of nursery fees, and allowed us both to work reliably (PT for me).

I realise this is still out of reach of many.

I think that's a bit unusual. Round where I live, which is not particularly wealthy, every family seems to own two cars which get replaced every few years, and yes, a lot of these people do spend towards the upper end of the 6k for their holidays.

It's a big mistake to assume people are only opposed to private education because they can't afford it.

@ichundich those people would have to be wealthier than average to afford 6k hols. Where I live (outer London) no one has 2 cars and they are mainly old. 6k holidays no way in hell.

But equally even if they had no car and no holidays they wouldn't find 25k a year probably.

Neither. I have no kids at school, and I went to a state school myself. When the time comes that I do have kids in school, I don't want them subjected to whatever crazy wheezes the Welsh Government has come up with that week. I don't want my child being taught that there are 73 genders and that if a girl doesn't do pink unicorns she's really a boy. Obviously there are plenty of private schools who are up to their eyes in that bullshit but I just wouldn't send a child to those ones, I'd look elsewhere. You don't have the same freedom in state, the National Curriculum is followed by all (and there are no academies or Free Schools in Wales so there isn't the same level of independence that English state schools get).

I also want my child to have a rounded experience. Many parts of the arts weren't covered at the comp I went to, other posters have described a sort of inverted snobbery that takes hold. Language provision in state schools is also very neglected and it embarrasses me when I travel that while almost everyone in western Europe (and quite a lot in eastern Europe) speaks English fluently (and possibly more languages beside), I can only muster a very basic amount French and Welsh.

Most of all I want my child to be happy. I don't care if they never go to uni, I'm a dropout myself working a blue-collar job which I enjoy, if they follow my footsteps or travel around Europe busking I'd be just as proud of them as I would be if they became a doctor or whatever. Just so long as they enjoy what they do. I certainly don’t want them driving themselves into a mental breakdown in some city job in pursuit of a purely financial reward - money doesn't buy you happiness.

I am not self interested. I just think it is a bullshit policy.

All of my friends, largely already privileged and educated, paid up one way or another. They either paid a tutor to do 11 plus for years, or they paid for a really expensive catchment (often twice) or they paid for private schooling (which for 1-2 kids can often end up cheaper than paying for catchment!).

I don’t want government to constantly interfere in education, I want more freedom for teachers and I want local authorities to have more control. I absolutely do not want a new government coming in and reinventing to whole wheel and curriculum, tests etc etc all over again. I want more teachers and less red tape. I want more attention for SEN kids and an easier pathway to identify SEN. I want local authorities to fund private diagnoses of SEN if that is what it takes.

What I actually want is government to remove VAT on swim school fees so that more children can access swimming lessons. If they are going to use the private sector to the advantage of more state school children I don’t want it sent to some government blackhole via VAT. I want local community benefits. I also don’t want the far left to tell me which entities are charities and deserve charitable status because I do not agree with that ideology one bit. I do not agree with too much centralised state control as a matter of principle. I do not agree with any rigid ideologies either whether far left or far right.

Quite

I totally disagree. Well funded schools with excellent education for all is a dreadful idea. I much prefer paying for private school. 😂

Those of you genuinely opposed to private education as a matter of principle did you really send your own DC to the local state in special measures or with other significant issues. Or are you in the Tony Benn and wife category? You are so privileged anyway and intellectual and perfect that you became a governor and turned the school around?

My point is that private education is just one small facet of the whole story. You could just as well come out and say let’s whack capital gains tax on all those rich parents who bought in the catchments of all the high performing state schools in the country when they move? And them only? Would that be OK?
Like I said, I am not self interested because I understand the game that is the school system in this country. But let’s not pretend it is not a game that the privileged know how to play, one way or another. And that is my point.

There is a lot of coverage again this weekend about Rachel Reeves MP and how she would never send her children to private school and how she went to Cator Park in Bromley etc. Well, she still got into Oxford, was a chess champion, got 4 A levels etc… studied PPE at Oxford.
But love, not everyone is as bright as you clearly are? Why take opportunities away from some people with kids with SEN or who have come from Asian countries and want to pay for private schools? Don’t take choices away from people because of your own narrow outlook. Some people send their kids to private school because they cannot plug the gaps themselves. Sure, regulate the private schools and make them contribute to local communities, but don’t throw more families under the bus in a cost of living crisis, especially if they have sent their DC because they already had a terrible time in the state sector.

Indeed. I just don’t see how ‘I went to X school and still made it!’ is a convincing argument against private schools. Sure, some will succeed despite their school, but how many sink? And succeeding despite your school is a problem. I said it another thread, but why do kids need to go through the educational equivalent of the hunger games to receive an education? Surely it’s preferable that they are indeed ‘spoon fed’, otherwise known as ‘supported in realizing their potential’?