What standard of living do you think should be the minimum everyone can afford?

[MondayAgainnn]

What do you think the absolute basic minimum should be?

I think everybody should be able to afford:

Decent food
Safe housing
Any extra medical things needed, including dentistry
Internet package as it is completely necessary nowadays
Enough clothes to stay warm, dry, appropriate trainers for exercising etc
Enough for some discretionary spending - obviously this is harder to quantify, but things like Netflix, a coffee, cinema tickets I feel should be a normal attainable part of life for everyone
Enough to save a bit

Whether it is through work or through benefits I feel everyone in society should be able to have a lifestyle that is dignified, basically comfortable and with room for treats. Not just subsistence level.

What do you think the minimum should be?

And absolutely some form of legal enforcement that both parents must always provide for any children. No mechanism for avoiding it.

Maybe a contract before birth?

So no father can say, I can't cope, and then leave and not pay

sure, but if they didn't we'd all be happy with a mud hut & some firewood, shouldn't we all be able to share in the fruits of human progress?

Food, clothes, a safe roof over your head, & warmth when you need it. These are the basics; everything else is an addendum but in an ideal world this would be extended to include:

one holiday a year - children DO need escapism, it’s very very important for their mental health & development.

Safe, reliable & accessible transport

Access to minimum wage jobs for everybody

yes, but many things which count as work are not remunerated, many things which people get paid for are harmful to society.

That would mean every individual person would have to plan on being a single parent in case their relationship broke down. It would mean earning enough to pay mortgage or rent on their own, all bills, and 1 or 2 lots of childcare which is over £1000 a month per child in most cases. That is not realistic.

because the BTL business model relies on low interest rates, and those days appear to be over

you dont see a problem with depopulation? With a demographic shift whereby we have large numbers of elderly people and very few working younger people?

Housing, food, education, hobbies. The ability to self-actualise.

It has to happen at some point. The world is a finite space with finite resources. As is this country, we are already one of the most densely populated countries. It's time to deal with it instead of being selfish and kicking the can down the road for future generations to deal with.

The elderly will have to work until they are closer to the age they will die or we'll need to stop keeping people needlessly alive for the sake of it. Heart surgery at 80 etc. Too many old people is not a good reason to diminish the quality of the lives of the young.

They already are aren't they, state pension age keeps increasing

Actually I think the measure of success is in children - are they educated well, are they healthy & stimulated, & have enough food/clothing/warmth. Is their mental health good? Are they exposed to equal opportunities to be socially involved, to pursue an interest, to develop?

Perhaps we should start with the outcomes & work backwards from there

Here's a selection of counties whose corporate tax rates are equal to or higher than the UKs.

India 34.94%
Brazil 34%
Japan 30.62%
Australia 30%
German 30%
Mexico 30%
Nigeria 30%
Pakistan 29%
New Zealand 28%
South Korea 27.5%
South Africa 27%
Canada 26.5%
Netherlands 25.8%
Spain 25%
France 25%
China 25%

Care to explain why we've not seen an influx of corporations based in those counties to the UK, where they could not only access the 5/6th largest economy in the world but also save up to 9.5% on their corporate tax bill? Could it be because corporation tax isn't really that much of a consideration....

Oh and our bills haven't come down because of privatisation and the government using tax payers money to protect oil industry profits.

Between £9,000,000,000 and £27,000,000,000 a year depending on how you count it.

Heating
Food
Sufficient Housing
Dental
Medical
Suitable clothing/shoes
A bit spare for treats
Means to access the Internet. Whether that is more free access at libraries etc, or a cheap smartphone/broadband. Doesn't need to be a contract iPhone.

Holidays, nope. Luxury. But if treat money is saved towards a holiday, fine. Car, nope, again a luxury for the majority.

Having grown up extremely poor, I appreciate the basics and am glad we worked hard to afford some luxuries (no abroad Holidays affordable, sadly) but nice cars and a nice house.

This is an interesting thread.
I think wages need to rise for a lot of jobs.
Minimum wage keeps increasing- which is great but the jobs higher up the pay scale don't to the same degree.
I'm a teacher ( for the last 4 years) and dh works too. We rent as we have never been able to save enough for a deposit and as both lots of parents do we will never have an inheritance either. Our rent for a modest 3 bed (2 children sharing) is half of my wages.
My car is nearly 20 years old but still runs so will keep until it dies.
Dh' sis 10 years old - he does more miles than me.
We eat well (healthily) but rarely eat out. We have a take away maybe once a month.
We have had a couple of Uk breaks over the years but never been abroad.
My children do a hobby/ club each and we can afford a treat in the school holidays.
Birthdays and Christmas require budgeting.
I very rarely have more than £500 in a savings account.
Every time we start to feel better off, something happens like the electric increase, or an appliance breakdown, vet bill or similar.
Standards of living are going to decrease for many more people when the debt they have taken on to carry on as usual catches up with them ( saw an article from Citizens advice on bbc yesterday)
My older children will be better off than we are as we have supported them to be able to save money to establish themselves much better than we were able to.
The state of our country is dire - all public services have been depleted to the point that they are struggling to function.
My work is more difficult because of our (lack of) budget.
I have no TA anymore.
I haven't been on strike as I simply cannot afford to as I'm the main wage earner.
It's a perennial issue that some benefit claimants take the piss, but those in need should not have to suffer.
I live in fear that my landlord will want to sell.
I don't know the answer but I suspect if we get rid of this feckless gov it would be a step in the right direction, although I'm not sure the rest are any better!

I would agree with this.
Currently far too many children do not have these basics.

Here come the ignorant MC benefit bashers. Fuck off

Why as the question if you just want everyone to agree with you? Netflix and going to costa are not necessities.

Society could increase benefits to allow families to fund these life-enhancing things but it probably wouldn’t bring the outcomes expected. Some people mismanage money, through lack of financial education, inexperience or sheer idiocy. They end up in debt they have to service monthly, depleting their available funds on an ongoing basis. Some people are shit cooks and get takeaway every night. Some people have expensive addictions. Others are massively consumerist, often driven by an instinct to hide the shame of poverty. Some would take it as a green light to have another child.

It is too simplistic to assume that additional investment would be spent in ways that align with middle class values about the modern standard of living (child enrichment activities, good dentistry etc). Lots of people just aren’t raised with those priorities.

I highly doubt that many people find coffee, cinema tickets and Netflix unaffordable in isolation. It's the frequency.

A 'coffee' costs £3. That's £6 twice a week. £24 a month. Netflix is about a tenner. Cinema tickets a fiver, so going twice a month would be £10.

So Op what exactly do you mean? How often are people supposed to be doing these things?

Actually perhaps the answer is to completely and radically change the whole economy and society.

Millions of people in professional jobs can't afford what is on your list as basics, a holiday, and regular treats.

So surely we need to change something

I agree with this list but would add in basic internet access via phone

and enough left to use public transport

That is a good point. It's sad but people don't always use the resources available to them in the best ways.

It's not always money either. I lived on a massive council estate during a time that massive amounts of money were being put into sure start centres. Those who would have most benefitted wouldn't use the facilities.

I a