What standard of living do you think should be the minimum everyone can afford?

[MondayAgainnn]

What do you think the absolute basic minimum should be?

I think everybody should be able to afford:

Decent food
Safe housing
Any extra medical things needed, including dentistry
Internet package as it is completely necessary nowadays
Enough clothes to stay warm, dry, appropriate trainers for exercising etc
Enough for some discretionary spending - obviously this is harder to quantify, but things like Netflix, a coffee, cinema tickets I feel should be a normal attainable part of life for everyone
Enough to save a bit

Whether it is through work or through benefits I feel everyone in society should be able to have a lifestyle that is dignified, basically comfortable and with room for treats. Not just subsistence level.

What do you think the minimum should be?

My parents were on benefits. I was like 12 🤦🏻‍♀️

@Samphiredragonfly

Yes I know

The govt bailing out big business by subsidising very low wages with UC is a huge problem

Wages should be much higher than they are to prevent people who are working from needing benefits

And those who still choose not to work should not have the same lifestyle as those who do.

Disability benefits where genuine should still be able to be claimed while working and should be a bit more than standard benefits

@MondayAgainnn , what is the justification that someone who doesn't work should have higher income and better quality of life than someone who does work?

There is a moral hazard argument that no benefit should be more than full time NMW.

Wow!!! I'm disgusted by your views. Do you have any idea how expensive it can be to be disabled?
Absolutely vile comment

@Botw1 if I understand correctly, you said minimum wage should always be higher than benefits including disability benefits?

If disability benefits (and the various supplemental benefits that disabled people can get like housing benefit, or whatever that portion is called now under the Universal Credit system) are never equivalent to minimum wage, you are condemning people reliant on disability benefits to subsistence level income. Because their income will be lower than the rest of society.

I agree about internet, especially since more and more services are moving to online-first (and even online-only or almost online-only) and it is made difficult for those who do not have internet access to access certain services. There have been some calls IIRC in terms of EU consultations/lobbying to define internet as a basic utility. I don't think we're quite at that point, but there is an increasing dependence. So I agree that it's a basic.

I disagree about streaming services. I'm not a subscriber to any and I don't consider them important to everyday life/a standard. There should be some access to entertainment, but this can be achieved through other - free or cheaper - means than rolling subscriptions to the likes of Netflix. Uncapped internet gets you free access to many films and shows; libraries are free etc.

As well as clothing to stay warm, I think decently heated housing.

I would consider dentistry as a standard medical need, not an extra medical need.

The vast majority of homes without internet are the elderly. They virtually all have landlines however so the costs are still there

I didn’t say that! I said minimum wage jobs should pay more than they currently do so that all those things in the OP could be covered. And that benefits, for those who were able to work, should be a little less than that, to make working worthwhile.

Perhaps we disagree on what the basics are?

Are people misreading what I'm saying?

Incase anyone else misunderstood. My
only holidays abroad where as a child. Where paid for by my benefit claiming parents. Hope that helps 🙄

Rent and bills. I wouldn't even manage that on my salary alone, despite working full-time.

I would redesign it all from the ground up, around the old English entitlements.

Wood, water, stone.

Aka, energy (heat and light), water, and shelter.

Nobody should have to pay for those things. I'd add wifi because it's 2023.

I think it's good for the vast majority of people to employ themselves, to exercise and to make their own creative endeavours - much healthier mentally than sitting on your arse watching Netflix.

Food would all be local and organic, and price capped to minimum profits.

There would be a lot of localised labour in this, a healthier population, and fewer mental health problems, and a better environment. You can have literally anything else manufactured/provided, but you have to earn it.

I think the vast majority would be pretty happy with the simple life, spending time in a rich local community. Better than the utter mess that is late stage capitalism.

@MondayAgainnn

No.

I'm suggesting that wages should never be subsitence. That they should be much higher than they currently are.

And that benefits should be a bit less than what you can earn on a wage but still cover what you described in your op

I thought that's what we were discussing?

Your hypothetical scenario, not reality?

There could well be a time when a universal basic income is needed as many lower paid but non-manual jobs will become automated or eradicated.

I think your list is pretty good, OP and I would expect a universal income to cover those things - maybe not the cinema as that is a niche luxury.

I'd also include adequate heating, and possibly basic gym membership.

People very rarely tell the whole truth or paint an accurate picture - my parents went on holiday to florida whilst on benefits - working cash in hand too obviously. But if anyone asked it was entirely funded by benefits

I would consider dentistry as a standard medical need, not an extra medical need.

Well, yes I agree but unfortunately it has become something of a luxury.

Before the pandemic I think I had to pay about 1200 quid for my root canal to a private dentist, for example.

I pretty much agree with you, OP, and with pps who have mentioned a holiday - one week's modest annual holiday, e.g. camping or self-catering static caravan type of thing.

It's all very well to say that holidays or the odd trip to the cinema are luxuries - yes, they are, but should we really expect people to lead entirely bleak lives with never a treat, not even on a birthday? That kind of lifestyle is what drives some people to anti-social behaviour or crime - because they have to 'get their kicks' somehow.

Ah ol @Botw1 I misunderstood then I apologise.

Agree in general that wages need to be much higher, the wage stagnation of the last twenty years has been so destructive.

ok not ol

Clean air
Outside space for play and exercise
A library

So benefit fraud which mn doesn’t believe exists remember.

@Arginalia It's all very well to say that holidays or the odd trip to the cinema are luxuries - yes, they are, but should we really expect people to lead entirely bleak lives with never a treat, not even on a birthday? That kind of lifestyle is what drives some people to anti-social behaviour or crime - because they have to 'get their kicks' somehow.

I think we should expect people to get a job so they can support themselves and then they can afford holidays or the odd trip to the cinema. It is better for them and it is better for society.

Yes I hear people complain about someone 'poor' having the audacity to own a £200 smart phone, yet in the 70s/80s the cost of a TV was huge compared to now but every household had one. In fact some rented a TV because it was so expensive. Nobody thought those families should be ostracised from society.

I agree the internet and a way to access it is a requirement these days. Homework is set online schools email not write etc.

I think the absolute basic minimum would be

• a home
• heating / electricity / gas
• food
• technology to a point (eg. A phone but not necessarily the latest iPhone)
• healthcare

Holidays / savings / treats / subscriptions are all above the basic minimum imo - the whole idea of basic minimum is the bare essentials surely?