To think people have inflated view of our healthcare system?

[Runaway0]

I've had treatment abroad twice and I wouldn't hesitate to get elective treatment abroad again this was the EU. The staff spoke perfect English there was an ICU in the hospital. I was offered pre op sedation because i was anxious ,I had my own private room , I was nursed with one other patient and there was 2 nurses on shift so 1:1 ratio my pain was perfectly managed. In comparison over here ive been expected to have gynaecological procedures with no pain relief. I had great protein filled meals with fish plenty of vegetables great for healing. (High carb slop offered here.)

I had dressings changed , post op care wirh docfor and I stayed 4 weeks to ensure everything was healing well. I keep hearing people say they would never get treatment abroad you will die etc they treat the UK as some holy grail of healthcare. People who go abroad are stupid etc.I have been left in pain multiple times in our health care system. My DD when she fell ill in Singapore had a team of doctors waiting for her at the hospital.
Preparing to be flamed but AIBU to think our healthcare system isn't that great? Many people haven't actually experienced care abroad so assume ours must naturally be the best?

Because that's gone so well in the past hasn't it? Serco, G4S etc - they're all doing an excellent job aren't they?

"Because that's gone so well in the past hasn't it? Serco, G4S etc - they're all doing an excellent job aren't they?"

Not to mention dentistry.

Based on per capita, which is what really matters and the UK spends far less per person.

We also have far less HCPs, beds, buildings and nurses.... in other words, a lack of investment since it first came into being.

Really don't get the "privatise it/insurance model" how would this generate more staff?
We have to face the fact that we don't have enough A level grade young people and if we encourage them to go into health, that would just leave shortages elsewhere in other sectors.

Leaving the EU has led to this latest crisis, not Covid.

The issue with this sort of thing is it's all sticking plasters. The NHS is hugely wasteful and disfunctional and then pockets are changed or privatised to fix those pockets, but it's just putting plaster on plaster on plaster rather than treating the wound. The whole thing needs to be pulled apart and reorganised, but that is likely such a daunting task it will never happen.

The other thing is the lack of accountability. People are made to feel like because it's "free" they should just be grateful with whatever care they get and shouldn't even dare complain if it's subpar and really impacting their wellbing. When actually we are all paying for the NHS, quite a lot as well.

Because that's gone so well in the past hasn't it? Serco, G4S etc - they're all doing an excellent job aren't they?

Because you've got fucking idiot civil servants or NHS employees negotiating and drawing up contracts.

I have private health insurance, you get your own room in private hospitals, the staff are generally pleasant and you get good treatment. The NHS is a disaster the government throws £billions at it, badly managed, obsessed with current fads and squanders cash.

the UK needs to adopt medical systems in line with France, Germany etc rather than keep the NHS alive. People would have to pay premiums, like in Europe

Just so we can blow apart the myth we spend a lot on health or we match europe or its down to bad management.

• This analysis examines how health care spending in the UK compares with EU countries in the decade preceding the pandemic.
• Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
• If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
• Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
• Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

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Lucky you.

Typical Tory response!

Leaving the EU has led to this latest crisis, not Covid

Look, I have had a chronic health condition for 30 years and can tell you that problems in the NHS well precede Brexit!

Brexit may well be your hobby horse but it is beyond simplistic to think that is one single cause to the current dire state of the NHS. There are many causes which have come together at this time to create the rather failing system we have now.

People are dying in our NHS system who don’t need to. People are suffering badly who don’t need to. People are spending literally years unable to work as they wait for operations. It’s utterly awful.

And you still get ideological numpties like those in this thread saying, ‘ another NHS bashing thread I see’ because they don’t want to face up to the problems, and they confuse being acerbic with argument.

People would have to pay premiums, like in Europe

Number 1 on the list of Things That Will Never Happen.

I'm having problems now. I fell over and hurt my back beginning February. Had xray, 8 week wait for ultrasound. Then referred to msk. Can't get a mri until been seen by MSK consultant to authorise it. 13 week wait minimum for MSK appointment. I'm at 3 months now. That'll be 6 months then, after falling over then? How can anyone think that's ok?

This is the sort of thing I am talking about. If you complain you are seen as ungrateful for not appreciating your "free" healthcare.

Oh yes, there it is. Suck it up and don't moan. The NHS is afterall doing you a huge favour by treating you....

I'm in an EU country with statutory health insurance paid for as a % of income and it's definitely not all private rooms and wine lists, and you have to use your initiative a bit (GP will happily refer to specialists for most things and you can choose one but have to look around and sometimes ring around to see where appts are available) but if you need treatment you get it, within a reasonable and safe timeframe. A 6-month wait for psychotherapy can happen but is considered unacceptable, and once you get it you get an absolute minimum of 25 sessions. If you have an acute problem you can go straight to a GP or specialist (ENT with an ear infection, orthopaedist with neck or back pain, gynae with mid-cycle bleeding etc) and generally be seen the same day or same week at least, although you may have to wait an hour or two in the practice. Same for an ill child except you go straight to their paediatrician. I pay 500 or 600 a month (because I work for myself I also pay the employer's half of the statutory insurance contribution) and some years I'm sure I don't 'use' all I pay in, but it's worth it to know I'm helping keeping a system run for everyone.

This

And this!

Do you ever stop to think that the number of similar posts points to a widespread problem that is causing misery and sometimes permanent disability or death, and that maybe - just maybe- this matters to people?

I have to say my experience recently has been amazing. I have been diagnosed with a serious neurological condition. I saw my specialist (who is an internationally respected expert) within a couple of weeks. Had the diagnostic tests two weeks later. Since then I get regular calls from a specialist nurse and can message her on an app that contains lots of useful information sharing tools.

When I had a query last week she called me within an hour of getting my message and the specialist saw me 2 days later and came up with a new treatment plan.

And I compare that with those with my condition in the US - often even previously wealthy people with decent jobs and insurance end up in dire financial circumstances because the cost of the drugs is so high. Or their insurers refuse treatments that my specialist would prescribe without blinking if I needed them . The stress of the financial burden makes our condition worse , and you see them going in a horrible downward spiral.

a major part of current crisis is staffing.
You realise there won’t magically be more staff, don’t you?
Though at least the private business healthcare model you are promoting would get nowhere without staff and would boost pay for HCP which the government are currently denying. I would not like to work in the system but I’d be happy with the 45% pay erosion for doctors being reversed and believe I would be much better paid as a vital person in a business model. A lot of the ‘project managers’ would go. More money to nurses, other frontline clinical staff.

My contribution also includes compulsory social care insurance, which we've seen in action fairly recently in my MIL's last couple of years - it covered the care she needed and she was able from her reasonable-but-not-huge pension to pay for a supported living flat with all meals and have plenty left over for discretionary spending.

Not all the time. The money they spend on lawyers is quite phenomenal. I know, I've seen the contracts. Albeit a few years ago now.

Agreed. And let's be clear, there are just as many "fucking idiots" (nice) in the private sector. And there are some phenomenally good civil servants doing amazing work and this is a lazy trope.

“I keep hearing people say they would never get treatment abroad you will die etc “

I suspect that the people you hear saying that aren’t talking about the same countries and the same procedures that you have experienced.

The hell do you keep hearing people say they wouldn’t want healthcare in Singapore 🙄🤣