To think people have inflated view of our healthcare system?

[Runaway0]

I've had treatment abroad twice and I wouldn't hesitate to get elective treatment abroad again this was the EU. The staff spoke perfect English there was an ICU in the hospital. I was offered pre op sedation because i was anxious ,I had my own private room , I was nursed with one other patient and there was 2 nurses on shift so 1:1 ratio my pain was perfectly managed. In comparison over here ive been expected to have gynaecological procedures with no pain relief. I had great protein filled meals with fish plenty of vegetables great for healing. (High carb slop offered here.)

I had dressings changed , post op care wirh docfor and I stayed 4 weeks to ensure everything was healing well. I keep hearing people say they would never get treatment abroad you will die etc they treat the UK as some holy grail of healthcare. People who go abroad are stupid etc.I have been left in pain multiple times in our health care system. My DD when she fell ill in Singapore had a team of doctors waiting for her at the hospital.
Preparing to be flamed but AIBU to think our healthcare system isn't that great? Many people haven't actually experienced care abroad so assume ours must naturally be the best?

I've always wondered when watching TV shows as it always looks good! I don't think I've ever seen anyone in a non-private room. The only thing that is sad/scary is if you one of the ones that doesn't have health insurance

Are the staff working hard? My mum had an emergency admission into hospital with a seizure and I sat with her for 20 odd hours through a&e, amu and onto a ward. Some staff worked consistently. Some staff chatted. The nurses in light blue and white, were being asked to do everything. The nurses in dark blue sat at computer screens, chatting. I asked one of these dark blue nurses for a bedpan for my mum and that I would sort her out. He had his chin resting on his hands and just stared at me. The man doing the tea trolley intervened and said that I needed help. And the nurse gave a vague smile and said when he had a nurse free, he'd send one over. He stayed seated where he was, with 4 other hcps. My mum wet herself.

@Phoebo it honestly is like in the TV shows 😀 I had an amazing experience going to ER (A&E) as well, I was seen within 30 minutes, had a private room as well and multiple doctors and nurses tending to me and giving me all necessary treatments on the spot. Was given food and drinks as well. The hospital I went to is very clean looks recently renovated too so overall felt pretty luxurious compared to Europe.
And the other thing I appreciated was the short waiting times - whenever my DD was sick the pediatrician would fit her in on the same day, same with my GP and referral to a specialist would typically happen within a few days, a week tops.
Also other thing worth noting, there’s a lot of money in the US for research so all top notch specialists experimental treatments etc seem to be there. I know quite a few people in Europe fundraising for a treatment only available in the US (like for rare conditions or cancer).
I was a SAHM and me & DD had a very good insurance through my DH’s job, there were generally no or very low copays at appointments (like $5).
I have a very vague understanding of what it’s like for people with lower level or no insurance (and it probably also differs by state) but I suspect this is where it gets tricky and people often have to set up GoFundMe for their treatments.
So yeah I guess a compromise would be nice, NHS could absolutely do with more funding and people should expect some level of copays but there should be measures in place to ensure low income people can still access adequate care.

It's not a controversial view, plenty of people realise the NHS is currently shit. I'd say most like the premise of free at point of use healthcare but acknowledge its not really working at the moment.

In 2010 NHS care scored highly on international tables and satisfaction levels were much higher. Then Tories got in, spending dropped significantly and not surprisingly quality of care.

“Health spending per person, adjusted for demographic change, NHS spending grew at 2% a year under the Conservatives from 1979 to 1997; at 5.7% a year under Labour from 1997 to 2010; at -0.07% from 2010 to 2015; and at -0.03% from 2015 to 2021. In other words, even Margaret Thatcher, who declared there’s no such thing as society, increased NHS funding at a higher rate than the Conservatives in the 2010s. David Cameron declared he wanted to create a “big society”, and he and George Osborne reduced NHS funding per person. Cameron also said that there would be no more top-down reorganisation of the NHS and then, with his health secretary Andrew Lansley, did exactly that. It marked what Chris Ham, former head of the King’s Fund, described as the political failure that led to the decline of the NHS.

Other European countries have taken a different approach. If the UK had increased its healthcare expenditure from 2010 to 2019 as much as France did, we would have increased our current spend by 21%, and by 39% if we had matched Germany. The NHS needs more money. It would help in filling the 150,000 vacant full-time posts. Paying doctors and nurses appropriately would help. But we do need reform as well.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/24/labour-wes-streeting-nhs-britain-europe?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I’m in Australia and I am often shocked by the posts on healthcare in the UK. In particular having to grovel and beg to actually see a dr in the first place. Here if you want an GP appointment you just make one and go. Same with hospital- you go to A&E (and it’s free). My DS was sick this week, went to A&E, waited about 4 hrs, triaged, admitted and had surgery the following morning (on a public holiday) to remove his appendix. Stayed in hospital for 3 nights, had a private room for 2 nights and shared with one other teenage boy the other night. Cost to us $0.

I was recently diagnosed with bowel cancer and my surgeon was going through the various prognosis statistics. He pointed out (I assume because DH is English) that the UK has the lowest survival rate from bowel cancer of any developed country - 20% lower survival rate than Australia!

Tests such as colonoscopies and endoscopies are always done under sedation here, I find it barbaric that they aren’t in the UK and I wonder if that contributes to poorer outcomes as people are just too scared to have the tests!

Can I ask which EU country?

Just as a side note I lived in Singapore and this amazing system you talk about missed cervical cell changes and resulted in a very good friend of mine becoming addicted to strong painkillers.

It was the NHS screening that saved me when I came back 4 years later.

I have no problem with people paying for treatment abroad, as long as there is no subsequent cost to the NHS. You have had good treatment in Singapore and another unnamed EU country, and did not return to the UK for 4 weeks. You were lucky, and no issues arose after your surgery, that does not always happen.

@evuscha My experience with US healthcare has been the same. No messing around, very little waiting, and absolutely phenomenal care. I’ve also never paid hardly anything for it.

Since the system is flush with money they do have the advantage in research, treatments, specialists, staffing, etc. Thankfully they’re also really benevolent about sharing their knowledge and findings with other countries. It’s easy to forget how much was pioneered in the US.

I think the thing to bear in mind is that the NHS is massively underfunded and a lot of money gets wasted managing people’s unrealistic expectations and time wasting. I’ve worked in the NHS for 18 years now and it never ceases to amaze me how many services are misused.

The maternal and infant mortality rates in the states are higher than any other developed country. That is how I measure the maternity services not wine lists !

That is to do with access to care though, not quality of care, and I do acknowledge that is an issue with privatized healthcare.
I had one pregnancy in the UK and one in the US and while it wasn’t bad in the UK, the thoroughness of checkups and screening was better in the US from my experience. But, as I said, I do have good health insurance. It probably isn’t as good or there’s more copay for people with lower tiered health insurance.

I have worked in the NHS for 23 years and I know it is in no way perfect. However you can't compare the whole NHS to private health care in the US, you have to compare it to the health care that most people can acsess.

Also having a baby (particularly your second if still under 35) doesn't need vast numbers of check ups. I had a total of 5 for my DD ( booking, 12 week scan, 20 week scan, 28 weeks and 36 weeks) in 2006. Made for a lovely relaxed pregnancy.

Our 5 year cancer survival rates are among the lowest in the developed world (they may even be the lowest - I can't remember), which I think is shocking. This is because of the quality of treatment and care, not because British people are subject to more aggressive cancers.

Quick google and found this:

https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2019/09/11/measuring-up-how-does-the-uk-compare-internationally-on-cancer-survival/

It's from 2019, so I expect it is probably even worse now, with so many people missed during covid.

Firstly I have to say that I have never received health care in another country.
however on 14th April this year I phoned my gp surgery and got an appointment to see the nurse practitioner that morning. I was referred on a two week wait. I had an appointment at hospital yesterday. I have been told that I’ll have the procedure in 4 to 6 weeks probably sooner. I saw a member of the dermatology team who had a trainee with her and also the consultant. My appointment lasted 20 minutes. Although I am very well aware of the situation with the NHS - lack of funding, staff needing pay increases, low morale etc I didn’t feel that I was being treated by a service that is on its knees. But that is due to the efforts of the staff.

If you want to speak strictly maternal/infant mortality rates and take the US out of it, UK still performs very below average compared to the rest of Europe, so there’s that.

Glad you had a stress free pregnancy, I did too when I was in the UK, so I can’t compare to what care I would receive if anything was wrong. However from what I hear from UK-based friends it’s really not that great. First of all noone will even see you before 8 weeks so if you’re having a miscarriage, tough luck. If you’re cramping and want a peace of kind, you can’t easily get an ultrasound unless you go private. A friend was denied amnio in NHS because the genetic disorder that she and her DH are both carriers of “is not even that bad” (so she has to pay £2.5k going private). Not sure if NIPT is routinely offered in the UK - it wasn’t to me in 2019 - it is in the US and some EU countries that I know (if you want it).

I think everyone will agree that the big issue for NHS is the funding (and lack of staff). And it doesn’t have to be privatized like the US but there are many models around Europe that just work better.

I live Central Europe. Had a baby 3 years ago. Your under a Gynaecology consultant the whole way, Midwife’s here are only for after birth. Had scans or check ups every 4 weeks. 36-40 weeks, weekly. Private room, 1 week stay is standard. Midwife then assigned, and can visit you every day at home for 6 weeks if you want them ( mine came every day 1 week, then twice new week, then weekly as I didn’t need more) - From 36week check until birth and all after stuff was peak start 2020 covid and nothing was reduced. All baby checks the first year done monthly. Maternal physio for muscles after provided as standard. Cost €0

I have a few friends in Central Europe and that’s what I hear as well. And Central European countries actually score really well in maternal/infant mortality rates.

People’s opinion is going to depend on their own experiences.

I am literally alive now because of the NHS. I spent Sunday night in a&e and the chaos and discontent that the media keep talking about just wasn’t there. I didn’t spend any more time there this time than I have done in the past, in fact it was quicker than times before the pandemic.

The NHS needs an overhaul but not just because of funding but also because people expect it to cover everything, and that’s just not sustainable.

Countries in Europe have a significantly higher tax, in the US the health service will benefit you depending on how much money you have and what your medical insurance is prepared to pay for.

And paying for treatment abroad is not comparable to having treatment on the NHS because you’re a paying customer, of course you’re going to get decent treatment, they want more like you.

I completely agree, a European system is what is needed. I was quoting US stats because the PP was talking about how good maternity care was there.

We were in Greece this Summer when one of our party became unwell, the care she recieved was supperior to what you would get here, although no wine list !

Looks like NIPT was introduced in 2021

phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2021/04/26/new-operational-guidance-for-nipt-screening-within-the-nhs/

'Free' at the point of use.
We pay for our health care system through taxation.

Wine list is obviously a nice touch but not mandatory! 😀

I’m glad to hear that. I didn’t even think about it being a thing back in 2019 (I wasn’t offered it and not sure if people with higher risk of DS were offered it or still had to pay for it) but now that is a routine thing in my second pregnancy it’s just nice to have that extra peace of mind.