School fees have risen by 19% in the space of 12 months

[Findingfactsaboutfees]

AIBU to think this is outrageous ?! Fees are exorbitant anyhow and in the last 12 months we have had an increase of 19% by way of 2 increases in a 12 month period. Fees per year for the senior school are £16690 per year and do not include state of the art facilities as other local schools do. The junior school fees aren't much less either! This is a school in the north of England. If you are paying for education, where are you based and how much do you pay? I wonder whether it is comparable.

Private education will only be for the ultra-rich if fees continue to rise at the rate that they are. It is unsustainable for most working professionals who are comfortable but not ultra-wealthy! Parents locally have tried to take their children out but can't as there are no state school places to be had within a 12 mile radius. The only other option is home schooling which isn't possible when the parents are working full time. We're not yet at the point where we are thinking of taking our child out of school but hearing the plight of those who are in the process of trying to is worrying. I've always been a labour voter but if they do go ahead with the introduction of VAT, I fear it's going to get even worse.

@Dibblydoodahdah You were misrperesting me. I was addressing a point another poster made about passports ( as in using their other passports). Most UK citizens do not have one.

Independent schools are full of children whose parents are highly skilled workers. Highly skilled people move around the globe".

They can. But it depends to where. People massively overestimate the demand for their skills when they make the " we will leave" threat. They also massively underestimate the costs of leaving and the impact the large exodous they are suggesting will have on the supply of workers who are available for these "highly skilled" jobs. They underestimate too the difficulty of actually obtaining the right to work in other countries. Yes Doctors, where there are everywhere, can move, but to the US it isn't as easy as made out. To Canada and Australia its much easier but there are also challenges.

Most threatening to leave the country over the introduction of VAT to private school fees are essentially making empty threats.

@hillaryswankfan so which is it, they won’t move or they can’t move? Make up your mind!

Why do you think that people whose skills brought them to this country in the first place or who are British and have already lived abroad, won’t move again.? I think they are fully aware of the cost and right to work implications.

Where did I once say it was easy to move to the US? I didn’t.

Yup, I don't get it. A good education is the best investment.

I didn’t say anything other than agree that the term “Champagne Socialist” generally applies when a Labour voter opts for private school for their own children.

And I am not wondering anything about you.

" so which is it, they won’t move or they can’t move? Make up your mind!"

I never said they couldn't, I said, if you actually read my posts that people massively overestimate how easy it is, and underestimate the costs and challenges.

"Why do you think that people whose skills brought them to this country in the first place or who are British and have already lived abroad, won’t move again.?"

Misrepresentation again. Strawman fail. I mostly addressed the issues faced by UK citizens.

"I have to say the attitude to paying for private education on here stinks! It's another choice some people make, the same as those who spend their salary saving, spending on going out, vices whatever, but the venom because someone spends on education. It's crazy."

It is this attitude that stinks. Making out that private school is a choice for most people, when the data clearly shows that it is not. There is no venom at all, what there is, rightfully, is the point that people who choose to buy a luxury which privileges their children don't need tax breaks on it.

Im tired of saying it but I will repeat, buying a Rolex or having a private hip replacement does not perpetuate inequality like private school does. It is not the same!

@Coffeeandbourbons I agree.

@hillaryswankfan Strawman bollocks. I referred to British citizens as well as those who’d moved here from other countries. How many people do you know that have moved abroad for work? I know a lot including members of my own family. Just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

It's always a bit odd for me to see people's hackles rising when others say they are neither supporters of private education or particularly sympathetic to people using it who then complain about the costs. You pay for it because you believe it will give your children an advantage. You are trying to buy your child a better start in life than children whose parents do not have thousands of pounds to spare will have. Why would it then come as a shock that people not similarly privileged are critical of your choices and the system that perpetuates them? Why would you find it so hard to understand that people with far less don't see making it easier for you to afford your privilege as a priority? Odd.

God this leaving the country stuff is so boring, why not move on now?

There won't be many families who are rich enough to afford private education at the moment but not rich enough to absorb a small rise in cost but also have the ability and the funds and the inclination to relocate internationally who wouldn't have done it at some point anyway. It's really not going to be a big thing.

Most Indian immigrants who send their kids to private are actually in this position. Several have sent their kids to India to continue their education because the cost of keeping a household there is now less than the price of school fees here.

@SoTedious it won’t be the only reason people move abroad, it will be one of the reasons.

The country I live in has international schools which teach in English. You can relocate here and use those schools, if you really want.

But they're extremely expensive, and academically speaking do not deliver the standards of a top London private/super-selective grammar school (I don't mean they are bad schools, but probably the academic attainment level will be no better than that of a good state school in the UK, rather than St Pauls Girls School or what have you). That's because

a) They can't be as selective, as they have to select from a much narrower pool of applicants. Expats' kids vary quite a lot and are not all super bright
b) Staff and pupils come and go quite a lot, making it very hard to have any accountability for results.
c) Kids come in from other countries' systems, from the local school system, and from families which don't speak English at home, and this means that schools must spend time and resources working with some of the kids to fill in curriculum/knowledge gaps, gaps in their English, or both.

Then you have got all the complications of living overseas. Even for the wealthy, it's not always easy. With both men and women having careers these days, it's hard to find locations where both halves of the couple can prosper. More and more people come from small families with one or zero siblings, so there is concern and guilt about leaving elderly parents behind. Relocating always involves far more costs than anyone estimates at the time they make the decision. Don't even get me started on the growing cost of international flights. Companies are less generous than ever with their expat packages, not least because the growth of English competancy in much of the world means there is less demand for western expats unless they really are fluent in the target language of the country. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, many of the forces at foot in the modern world are making international relocation harder, not easier.

I really cannot imagine the large majority of rich people engaging in all this bollocks JUST in order to avoid VAT on schools, seriously.

I'm basing this on experience as a long term resident in another country with many expat friends. I don't consider myself an expat, and we've used local schools (a mixture of public and private), fwiw!

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Several have sent their kids to India to continue their education because the cost of keeping a household there is now less than the price of school fees here.

Several? So what? Even if as much as 10% of private school students relocate, that's 2.5% of the brightest students in the country - if all of the 10% are bright, which they wouldn't be. It's hardly a brain drain.

What will be the other reasons @Dibblydoodahdah?

Maybe but in areas like Birmingham and Leicestershire and parts of Buckinghamshire and London where Indian parents drive the demand you will see school closures because of this.

@SoTedious increased taxation generally, failing public services, terrible working conditions and low pay (e.g. NHS doctors)….The usual things. I know a number of people who have emigrated to Australia who send their children to private schools there. The Government provides funding for private schools. It’s not going to be the main factor, but it will be another nail in the coffin.

It is an interesting time for successful Indian people. Isn’t India growing at a far faster rate than UK? Do you think we will see Chinese eventually going to place s like India for education?

Are private schools in India booming?

Maybe but in areas like Birmingham and Leicestershire and parts of Buckinghamshire and London where Indian parents drive the demand you will see school closures because of this.

I seriously doubt that "several" students moving to India will result in school closures. But again, so what? If schools can't operate with a price point that's affordable for customers, the business is clearly not viable.

increased taxation generally, failing public services, terrible working conditions and low pay (e.g. NHS doctors)….The usual things.

These have been around for a while now - but maybe you think the school fees thing will be the tipping point. In any case, the sooner we get rid of this useless government the better then.

The Indians and Chinese (I'm Indian so not speaking out of turn and I'm speaking from experience) are obsessed with private education and British ways. They value education above everything else so will scrimp to send their kids to a British private school. I think it's because in India, education can't be taken for granted as so many don't have the opportunity and can't afford it.

India has the world's biggest population and is increasingly important part of the economy as the West increasingly decouples from China. India is also going gangbusters with the infrastructure right now (green energy, rail).

It remains poorly governed, though, and there are a lot of serious QOL issues in India that money doesn't entirely insulate you from, especially the terrifyingly bad air pollution in most cities, which has significant and dangerous impact on health. I wouldn't want a child of mine being educated there.

I'd be pretty surprised if there was some massive exodus of south Asian families to go and live in India because of VAT (and if they did, well... I'm getting confused because we keep being told that the biggest issue with VAT is that sTatE sCHoOls wILL gET fLoOdEd WitH eX PrIVaTE SChooL kiDS, and now apparently it's also a problem if some of the teens wind up doing their sixth form years in Gujarat (shrug)).

As for schooling in India, there are a lot of affordable private schools in India because there is a market for affordable private education in India, since the government schools are so unspeakably dire (as in, teachers literally don't turn up half the time). so anyone with any money at all uses private school; even literal slum inhabitants club together and set up ad hoc private schools of a sort). I do not know how good Indian private schools tend to be, and I'd imagine the quality varies enormously, just like everywhere else.

As PP says, people in the UK of Indian ethnicity are more likely to believe private education is inherently better. Perhaps that's partly due to a feeling of wanting to avoid racism and acquire insider cultural knowledge and connections; I also think a lot of it comes from a vague sense inherited from parents' and grandparents' experiences of schools on the subcontinent that "you have to pay for private because government-run schools are just utterly piss poor."

So is there another country that could directly benefit from the UK government indirectly killing the private school sector in the UK (slow death) that is? Who are the competitors? What will the impact be on UK universities if UK loses its trade mark for top education globally?

Switzerland? Ireland? US? Dubai?! Australia? Where will all the skilled Chinese and Indians head next?

What will the impact be on UK universities if UK loses its trade mark for top education globally?

Why would there be an impact on universities if private schools lose their charity status and pay VAT?
Or I guess I am asking, why would the UK lose its reputation in HE if some of the less viable private schools close?

It will be the minor private schools that will close. Those that attract people for whom the fees are a bit of a stretch. It will have zero impact on the top public schools.