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Original poster

Reasonable adjustments

115 replies

Melmimi28 · 25/04/2023 05:52

ill probably get roasted for this … however I’m genuinely interested in thoughts rather than creating a huge divide/debate.
After reading the whole dog on bus /allergy thread. What are actually considered reasonable adjustments for people with actual disabilities and where it draws the line in detrimental affects to others.
I ask in relation to a particular experience of going to Musical , we were seated not far from a group of severely disabled guests, I obviously completely agree they are entitled as anyone to visit and enjoy said musical . However throughout the show these guests used multiple rattles/shaking devices almost continuously as a comfort aid . Made loud verbal sounds (likely uncontrollable) I appreciate these things they are not able to control/choose. However in the context of watching a performance which is sound/music based and these extra sounds create a significant distraction and loss of enjoyment…. (For me I’d have preferred to have not gone I really could not concentrate due to distractions) at what point does making accommodation for disability override others enjoyment being detrimented .
I felt awful for feeling this way… but I attended a musical that could not be enjoyed due to significant shaking of loud rattled and vocal noises.

OP posts:
electriclight · 25/04/2023 12:42

Gtsr443 · 25/04/2023 07:13

A theatre isn't your front room. It's a live communal experience.
From a performers point of view we accept whoever is out there - noisy eaters, whining kids, snorers, the "recite large chunks of Shakespeare along with the actor" people. Trust me, Wednesday matinees and school parties can be a bloody challenge but if theatre is to survive, audiences need to realise that they are not in a controlled environment.

If theatre is to survive, they need to ensure that the experience is enjoyable.

Constant noise that is louder than the performance is unreasonable.

If theatres say that ticket holders cannot expect the theatre to intervene when the performance cannot be heard, we won't take the risk and will stop going.

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 12:47

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:54

@moonspiral
Right but how are you going to force people to go to the "relaxed" performance
Obviously I would really hope that the vast majority of people would book a performance that best suited their needs in the first place. If you want or need to make noise then a relaxed performance would be better, if you require quiet in the audience then don't attend the relaxed shows.

I'm afraid in the context of there being a range of performance types available then those disturbing the rights of others go enjoy the show in an appropriate manner would have to be asked to leave. Someone that requires quiet in the audience shouldn't have their enjoyment ruined or be forced to leave and neither should those who need to make noise. This would work both ways btw so anyone who is trying to enforce silence in a relaxed performance should also be asked to leave as that wouldn't be appropriate.

You think a disabled person who makes noise as a result of that disability should be asked to leave? Is that right?

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 12:53

Blamunge · 25/04/2023 07:28

This situation is why there are relaxed performances. Guests who aren’t able to be reasonably still and quiet during the show are encouraged to attend the relaxed performance. If you book for the standard show then it’s a reasonable expectation that you won’t make excessive noise or movement, and if you do you’ll be removed. It’s very selfish to attend a standard performance if you know you can’t comply with the behaviour expected. The people in question should have been removed for making noise.

You think they should have been chucked out because of their disability?

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 12:54

@moonspiral
You think a disabled person who makes noise as a result of that disability should be asked to leave? Is that right?
In the scenario where there are relaxed (i.e. the audience can make noise) and quiet (i.e. no noise from the audience) performances then I believe anyone in the wrong showing should be asked to leave. As I mentioned upthread, this is the only feasible way you can meet the needs of those who cannot tolerate noise from the audience during a show. These people will often have some neurodiversity or disability themselves and need a quiet audience to be able to access the theatre.

I can tell you are indignant but what is your practical solution to the issue of making the theatre and cinema inclusive and enjoyable for everyone?

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 12:55

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 12:54

@moonspiral
You think a disabled person who makes noise as a result of that disability should be asked to leave? Is that right?
In the scenario where there are relaxed (i.e. the audience can make noise) and quiet (i.e. no noise from the audience) performances then I believe anyone in the wrong showing should be asked to leave. As I mentioned upthread, this is the only feasible way you can meet the needs of those who cannot tolerate noise from the audience during a show. These people will often have some neurodiversity or disability themselves and need a quiet audience to be able to access the theatre.

I can tell you are indignant but what is your practical solution to the issue of making the theatre and cinema inclusive and enjoyable for everyone?

I think if people can't accept that other people will be at the cinema or theatre then they shouldn't go

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 12:58

@moonspiral no not because of their disability, because they were disrupting the performance. If their disability meant that they self soothed by playing the trumpet would that be OK too? Does disability mean you can take your support llama to the theatre?

The key here is what would a reasonable adjustment look like?

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 13:00

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 12:58

@moonspiral no not because of their disability, because they were disrupting the performance. If their disability meant that they self soothed by playing the trumpet would that be OK too? Does disability mean you can take your support llama to the theatre?

The key here is what would a reasonable adjustment look like?

It's not an adjustment to accept their noise. It's an acceptance.

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 13:01

And llama fine - just like a dog. trumpet - I'd want to see supporting evidence

FrippEnos · 25/04/2023 13:07

Silvergoldandglitter · 25/04/2023 06:16

There's the same kind of post in my local Facebook group about toddlers attending. They were running and shouting and people couldn't hear.

Not really the same type of post at all.

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 13:09

@moonspiral
I think if people can't accept that other people will be at the cinema or theatre then they shouldn't go
And it's just that easy is it? You clearly couldn't care less about anyone with needs that differ from those that make noise so you aren't very inclusive at all are you? Some need to make noise, most prefer a quiet audience and some need a quiet audience. In your world only the first group counts and their right to be included completely erodes the rights of everyone else.

PaperSheet · 25/04/2023 13:13

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 13:01

And llama fine - just like a dog. trumpet - I'd want to see supporting evidence

And this is how crazy things are getting. Some people actually think bringing a llama to the theatre would be totally fine just because the person has a disability.

itsgettingweird · 25/04/2023 13:43

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 12:58

@moonspiral no not because of their disability, because they were disrupting the performance. If their disability meant that they self soothed by playing the trumpet would that be OK too? Does disability mean you can take your support llama to the theatre?

The key here is what would a reasonable adjustment look like?

Support llama Grin

The rest of your post is spot on but this comment made me lol!

I've had to spend many an hour explaining to my autistic ds other people can and will make noise.

When I take him to places where there are rules about noise he expects that to be adhered to.

How am I meant to explain to him that he must manage his own disability but others who are disabled can do what they like - even when it impacts him?

That's why it's called EQUALITY and REASONABLE.

Some of the posts on here are anything but reasonable.

You shouldn't expect to have your paid for trip out ruined by others.

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 13:49

PaperSheet · 25/04/2023 13:13

And this is how crazy things are getting. Some people actually think bringing a llama to the theatre would be totally fine just because the person has a disability.

Show quote history

If trained and wearing a jacket like a guide dog why not? It's like people take emotional support animals on planes

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 14:46

@moonspiral do you not think it's size might be an issue? Or the smell? Or the lack of continence

Crazycrazylady · 26/04/2023 17:46

I think most people would agree that taking noisy self soothing machines to a theatre performance is an unreasonable expectation given that all the people in the direct vicinity of them wouldn't be able to hear the dialogue at all. One groups needs doesn't trump everyone else's regardless of if they are disabled or otherwise.

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