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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Reasonable adjustments

115 replies

Melmimi28 · 25/04/2023 05:52

ill probably get roasted for this … however I’m genuinely interested in thoughts rather than creating a huge divide/debate.
After reading the whole dog on bus /allergy thread. What are actually considered reasonable adjustments for people with actual disabilities and where it draws the line in detrimental affects to others.
I ask in relation to a particular experience of going to Musical , we were seated not far from a group of severely disabled guests, I obviously completely agree they are entitled as anyone to visit and enjoy said musical . However throughout the show these guests used multiple rattles/shaking devices almost continuously as a comfort aid . Made loud verbal sounds (likely uncontrollable) I appreciate these things they are not able to control/choose. However in the context of watching a performance which is sound/music based and these extra sounds create a significant distraction and loss of enjoyment…. (For me I’d have preferred to have not gone I really could not concentrate due to distractions) at what point does making accommodation for disability override others enjoyment being detrimented .
I felt awful for feeling this way… but I attended a musical that could not be enjoyed due to significant shaking of loud rattled and vocal noises.

OP posts:
Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:47

@moonspiral
How does that change things though? When this group booked they presumably knew it was a "standard" performance and were happy to attend. What was going to happen to force them to go to the "relaxed" performance?
This is a ridiculously selfish approach. The group may well have been happy to attend the performance and may have been completely unaware of the disturbance they were causing other theatre goers but that doesn't mean it was the best option for them. A relaxed performance would obviously have been more appropriate.

I have an autistic friend who would really really struggle with a group like that making noise in the theatre. I also have several relatives (some disabled) with hearing difficulties that wouldn't be able to hear the show with that level of noise coming from the audience. Why is it fair that one group's needs or even preference trumps everybody else's?

moonspiral · 25/04/2023 06:47

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:47

@moonspiral
How does that change things though? When this group booked they presumably knew it was a "standard" performance and were happy to attend. What was going to happen to force them to go to the "relaxed" performance?
This is a ridiculously selfish approach. The group may well have been happy to attend the performance and may have been completely unaware of the disturbance they were causing other theatre goers but that doesn't mean it was the best option for them. A relaxed performance would obviously have been more appropriate.

I have an autistic friend who would really really struggle with a group like that making noise in the theatre. I also have several relatives (some disabled) with hearing difficulties that wouldn't be able to hear the show with that level of noise coming from the audience. Why is it fair that one group's needs or even preference trumps everybody else's?

Right but how are you going to force people to go to the "relaxed" performance.

WhatNoRaisins · 25/04/2023 06:49

If it was in the terms and conditions that to attend performance a. as opposed to relaxed performance b. you need to be quiet then no why should the staff feel bad for asking them to leave.

delilabell · 25/04/2023 06:50

But would you do that if you worked there?

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 06:51

WhatNoRaisins · 25/04/2023 06:39

When you pay out so much for a ticket it's not unreasonable to actually want to hear and focus on the performance. Agree that there should be both relaxed performances and those with stricter rules about how you behave.

Absolutely! My son has autism and loves the theatre. He would absolutely not cope with other people making noise or and hates it when other people sing along. We avoid re

I don't see this as a disablaxed performances like the plague but for others they're great. Likewise my mum is partially deaf and would really struggle to hear anything in the situation described.

I don't see this as a disability bashing thread because it's not a clearcut disabled access issue. It's looking at how a range of access needs are catered for in a setting like a theatre.

AvocadoPlant · 25/04/2023 06:52

Surely by definition a “relaxed” performance is a relaxing of the usual requirements/expectations of the audience in the theatre. This allows for more noise and movement than usual.

So the usual requirements/expectations are that you don’t make noises or move around during the performance.

DisquietintheRanks · 25/04/2023 06:52

God that was mangled. Hope people can make sense of it.

WhatNoRaisins · 25/04/2023 06:52

Yes if it was my job.

delilabell · 25/04/2023 06:52

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:47

@moonspiral
How does that change things though? When this group booked they presumably knew it was a "standard" performance and were happy to attend. What was going to happen to force them to go to the "relaxed" performance?
This is a ridiculously selfish approach. The group may well have been happy to attend the performance and may have been completely unaware of the disturbance they were causing other theatre goers but that doesn't mean it was the best option for them. A relaxed performance would obviously have been more appropriate.

I have an autistic friend who would really really struggle with a group like that making noise in the theatre. I also have several relatives (some disabled) with hearing difficulties that wouldn't be able to hear the show with that level of noise coming from the audience. Why is it fair that one group's needs or even preference trumps everybody else's?

You're starting to give off a "I'm not disabilist" vibe with all your friends and relatives

tatteddear · 25/04/2023 06:53

Until recently I managed care services for people with severe LD. I wouldn't have taken my service users to anything but a relaxed performance of a west end musical, because it wouldn't have been fair on the other attendees. Similarly I wouldn't have taken them to Claridges for lunch but we happily and regularly took them to more relaxed places, having spoken to the places first to check they were fine with it. That way everyone felt more comfortable.

It's not about hiding people away-I'm a huge advocate of the rights of the disabled-but it is about having some consideration all round.

ProudAS · 25/04/2023 06:53

I'm with @Melmimi28 - I have autism and would find this situation very hard

Original poster
Melmimi28 · 25/04/2023 06:53

@Singleandproud agree, eating rustling food and sweet packets is the worst when watching a show !

OP posts:
gogohmm · 25/04/2023 06:53

Our local theatre has relaxed performances, at other times this wouldn't be allowed

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:54

@moonspiral
Right but how are you going to force people to go to the "relaxed" performance
Obviously I would really hope that the vast majority of people would book a performance that best suited their needs in the first place. If you want or need to make noise then a relaxed performance would be better, if you require quiet in the audience then don't attend the relaxed shows.

I'm afraid in the context of there being a range of performance types available then those disturbing the rights of others go enjoy the show in an appropriate manner would have to be asked to leave. Someone that requires quiet in the audience shouldn't have their enjoyment ruined or be forced to leave and neither should those who need to make noise. This would work both ways btw so anyone who is trying to enforce silence in a relaxed performance should also be asked to leave as that wouldn't be appropriate.

PinkyU · 25/04/2023 06:54

I think as disability rights are enshrined in law and enjoyment of a musical is not YABU.

As another poster has said you don’t get any say in who attends the theatre alongside you, wether they are disabled and make noise or wear pungent perfume.

You could have spoken with the ticket office, explained that you were struggling and could you exchange your ticket for a different performance.

helpfulperson · 25/04/2023 06:57

This is one of the biggest challenges with 'reasonable adjustments ' and happens alot in schools as well. Where the needs of two different groups or people are opposite how do you decide whose needs trump. A group like this can be very distressing to other people with different additional support needs. I agree that maybe the introduction of 'quiet performances' might work.

Bumpitybumper · 25/04/2023 06:57

@delilabell
You're starting to give off a "I'm not disabilist" vibe with all your friends and relatives
What a disgusting thing to insinuate! A decent proportion of the population are disabled (circa 20%) so I imagine most of us have a number of disabled friends and family or indeed are disabled themselves.

Wrongsideofpennines · 25/04/2023 06:57

I think when the reasonable adjustments impact significantly on the enjoyment/participation of others then its not reasonable. And another solution would be to have an alternative, more relaxed performance where people are aware of this.

There was the incident where a Manchester theatre had to stop their performance of a musical a couple of weeks ago because people were singing loudly and it was distracting and people couldn't hear the actors. Surely the same could be said about people using loud instruments throughout, regardless of the reason.

Washingandironing · 25/04/2023 06:58

I actually agree with the PP who suggested “quiet” performances where there is no singing along, getting up and down etc. My DD has autism and we were at a recent performance where there was a very drunk group of women behind us, standing up, singing along, saying the words with the actors. At one point I thought one of them was going to fall on top of us. My DD was so distressed I had to take her out. Whose enjoyment takes precedence? My DD was sitting quietly.

JudgeRudy · 25/04/2023 06:59

I don't think it was 'reasonable' to allow someone to make such a racket during a performance. I think you should have been at least given the option of a refund, but preferably either made you aware offered 'seperate' sessions for these people. Grey probably ruined the experience for many people

Original poster
Melmimi28 · 25/04/2023 06:59

@tatteddear thanks for your response, it’s insightful. I’d obviously felt awful for the way I’d felt after this show, I was genuinely wanting perspective on wether I’d been completely unreasonable for this type of performance to be made appropriate and enjoyable for all :)

OP posts:
Washingandironing · 25/04/2023 07:07

Apologies, I meant to add that by having quiet performances the onus is on those who need them to book specific times, not on people with additional needs to book relaxed performances. This makes inclusion the default

BibbleandSqwauk · 25/04/2023 07:08

Thing is, for something like a concert or a west end show, tickets can be £££ and people may have travelled a long way, stayed overnight, waited months. It's not unreasonable to expect to be able to hear the performance and rearranging isn't realistic. If there are options for relaxed performances I would expect those to be used as appropriate.

WhatNoRaisins · 25/04/2023 07:09

The quiet performances as an option isn't a bad idea. In general I don't think it's unreasonable for different places and different situations to have different rules and norms and for staff to enforce them where appropriate.

StoppinBy · 25/04/2023 07:10

I think it's a reasonable adjustment when it doesn't impact others in a negative way and it's something that can be avoided.

Taking noisy instruments to a theatre is always going to impact the experience for everyone negatively.

The vocal noises would be something that I'd accept as perfectly normal and although they'd impact the ability to hear properly I'd not be annoyed.

Noisy shakers being brought in is incredibly selfish of the group attending and that would annoy me. I don't think shakers in the audience at a theatre are reasonable under any circumstances. They could foresee how much they would impact the rest of the audience and just didn't care.