For being annoyed I was asked to stand on a bus because of dog allergies?

[anywayhereswonderwall]

I went to visit a friend in London today and I took my dog. It's worth noting she is a mini poodle, and hypoallergenic, and well behaved. You can barely even tell she's there. I got on the bus as part of my journey. It was the middle of the day so there were a few empty seats (but not loads).

I got on and sat down, and the woman a few rows behind me said 'can you move , I have a dog allergy'. I apologised and moved a few rows forwards, the furthest forwards I could go and still get a seat.

She then shouted forwards 'not far enough, you're going have to stand at the front'.

I was confused, but did it. I spent the rest of the 35 minute journey standing right at the front of the bus while the woman was 3/4 of the way along, sitting.

I did what she said for the journey, but when I got off I felt annoyed and I'm not sure if I'm justified.

"He can’t understand he’s severely autistic with learning difficulties and other conditions"

So is mine so I avoid places with triggers and it is almost always 2:1 support.

@Goldenbear
At no point did I ever refer to a disabled child as 'feral'. What a thoroughly disgusting thing to accuse me of. I referred to the number of badly behaved children whose parents expect them to be tolerated in all establishments at all costs. The mother from the cafe even initially admitted that she would ask someone with a guide dog to leave the establishment if she had been there first. This is not advocacy, it's entitlement. Also - What exact law are you referring to that advocates for children's rights over animals right? Pray tell!

We are at the stage I think 2:1 is needed as my anxiety is sky high managing him for my own safety and the safety of others

I've heard it all now. Why do your needs trump another customers in a dog friendly cafe? I wouldn't have left (I also have an autistic child. Part of that is helping him manage situations. !)

@MySugarBabyLove I agree. I remember a drive about 5 years ago, maybe, to educate people about the dangers of saying they're allergic when in fact they just don't like something or find it doesn't agree with them. Particularly in restaurants - allergies involve complex cleaning processes and if everyone is claiming them then the restaurant stops taking it as seriously as they should (because it's assumed that everyone who says they are allergic isn't actually allergic).

The campaign was about using other terminology so that allergy is reserved for that which causes harm to health.

I do think a lot of people exaggerate in order to try and bring themselves within the Equality Act 2010 and get a leg up on pet owners.

People take priority over dogs. You chose to take the dog on the bus, you should be amenable in these situations (which you were). She sounds a bit rude but I don't think the request is unreasonable.

Thing is, if we're going to have a discussion about people with disabilities taking precedence over people who own dogs and want to bring them inside a cafe - which I agree with - then we also need to acknowledge that people with disabilities take precedence over people who have (NT) kids and want to bring them inside a cafe. Kid noise can exacerbate disability symptoms.

Oddly enough, I can't see MN going for that one. MNetters are only bothered about people with disabilities when it comes to: (a) dogs and (b) their kids getting to attend school during COVID.

You know what? Initially I was going to say YWBU but dealing with this is fucking hard. He is a big, strong 12 year old and could do some serious damage yet you want to have a normal a life as you can for him and bring him out for his fave food. You also wanted to keep the people in the Café safe too. I didn't realise it was so serious and my heart goes out to you.

Well, your knowledge of allergies sounds quite ignorant, but I'm not having a go because I get if you don't have one, then why would you know?

There's no set threshold dose for allergies. Some grow out of them, and some get worse. One reaction may differ in seriousness to the next, and some build up over time to become more severe the more they are exposed to it. You could have a mild reaction, and then a week later, it could be a serious one. It's how lots of allergies play out.

There are a few factors as to why people suffer more with allergies nowadays:
Genetics, so a child is more likely to suffer from an allergy if their parent does, especially both.
Environment, we use different/more chemicals nowadays. 'Hygiene hypothesis' - exposure to microorganisms that exist naturally in the environment is important for us to build our immune system, but we are so clean nowadays that we don't always get that exposure.
Diet, we eat/import foods from all around the world nowadays. Links have also been made between allergies and the increased consumption of processed foods.

All factors to consider and a combination of these are most likely why there are more people with allergies nowadays.

Good point, in the USA especially emotional support dogs are a big thing. I used to follow someone who had one and it went everywhere with him, hotels, planes, etc. He brought it over to the UK. He was unable to function without it and he's autistic. So which autistic person take priority?

Why would a random stranger take priority over a companion animal?

No they wouldn't. It would be on you to leave.

This

Allergies (food) are covered under food safety law, so establishments should absolutely have procedures in place as part of their Food Safety Management System to ensure the food they serve is safe to eat. So the terminology doesn't need to be changed because it's already covered under food contamination law. They shouldn't be not taking it seriously because they think some customers are lying, that's a very dangerous game.

If he's 12 and likely to attack people - even with a disability, then YOU need to check before you enter any place whether dogs are likely to enter.
YOU must control his behaviour if he cannot.
Some people may simply refuse to leave with their dog...and if it's advertised as dog friendly why should they?
If it's a an assistance dog they are legally allowed to remain.
Your son is 12...you need to step up!
(Said as a parent of a child with a disability).

Busses have been dog friendly for as long as I can remember. So at least 33 years. Surely if your allergy to dogs is as bad as some claim, they wouldn't use services that allow them as standard.

I'm curious to know the answer to this but also don't have the will to read through 38 pages of messages to find out if there was a ressponse 🤯

I think you were in the wrong there tbh. Especially arguing with the proprietor... it's their decision.

I think there are some people who actually believe this to be true. But they are probably the same people who agreed with Donald Trump when he said injecting bleach could get rid of covid.

@PickoftheMix By terminology needing to be changed, what was meant was that people who aren’t allergic should stop saying they are because they think saying it will make it less likely that an establishment accidentally leaves something they don’t like in their food. There are people who use the word allergy to cover things they don’t like - that’s not good, as it makes the rarer person with a life threatening allergy more at risk, because of restaurant complacency.

I agree it shouldn’t be like that, but a lot of it is human nature I guess.

Chronic asthmatics (which go hand in hand with allergies) often cannot wear masks and we're exempt in covid as it's proven to make asthma much worse

Are you for real quite worrying if you still don’t understand that children are in fact people, not animals so yes, quite a few laws protect humans and their rights and freedoms! The Human Rights Act for one, do dogs have a right to a free trial, right to life even!

Surely it's not a case of people taking priority over dogs, but rather a case of every paying customer having the same rights? You had both paid to go on the bus - there were seats available, she cannot control where you sit or demand you stand.

Isn't it funny how the people who dislike dogs are tripping up over ALL the establishments that allow dogs and find it impossible to find someone where doesn't allow them, and yet as a dog owner I know there are only a select few places I could stop post dog walk for a coffee/lunch.

People will say that, yeah, but restaurants should still be taking every case seriously, well I know you know that, but it does highlight how lax some food establishments can be.

Any person could die of their allergy, it's not reserved for certain ones. The threshold dose/exposure over time/health factors all come into play of course but it can happen to anyone with an allergy. Some go one way, as in grow out of it, and some go the other. I'm allergic to certain ingredients they use in soaps and lotions. When I first had a reaction, it was really mild, then I had a few that were worse, then one day I went into anaphylaxis, then the next it was less. It's so bizarre and unpredictable, like lots of allergies, but you have to treat it as a worse case scenario, so I wouldn't go anywhere without my meds for instance.

It sounds really difficult for you and for your son. I can see why you were worried when someone brought a dog into the cafe.