To have felt sorry for this woman?

[Sapphire387]

We were out for lunch today.

There were three couples at the next table. One of them had a very young baby... a newborn. Over the space of a couple of hours, I watched the mother try and juggle the baby along with eating her food, assisted at times by the two other women in the group. This included taking the baby off for changing, walking it around, taking it outside when it was fussing too much. She did breastfeed, but obviously not the whole time.

The three men in the group sat there drinking beer and eating in peace. By the end, they were even watching sport on one of their phones while the women continued with the baby. Not one of those men held the baby or lifted a finger. I don't think I am normally so observant of others but... it was really noticeable, the difference.

Literally what the fuck? Felt so sorry for her. DH and I have older kids and we consider ourselves equal parents. I am pregnant so perhaps this makes me more sensitive to it, but I really wanted to say to them - and specifically the father - what the hell are you playing at?

Someone please tell me this isn't normal/ok? Seriously depressing.

How do you know they weren't just the same at home though? I was fussy everywhere I went as a baby apparently! I don't get the impression it was worse away from home. And the parents' sanity is surely important. Nobody's suggesting a meetup in a brothel or a gambling den!

My husband and me genuinely are 50/50 with our baby. We've even split parental leave - six months each - too.

My Dad never lifted a finger with us. I left my baby with him once for a few minutes, she started screaming and my brother came upstairs to get me - my Dad had just left her to cry, not picked her up or got off the sofa, for 30 minutes. Sitting right next to her ignoring her. I couldn't believe it.

My poor Mum! She always told me to marry a man that splits housework and childcare equally

Some women set the bar way too low. It’s not a bloody limbo contest!

I am very grateful that I set the bar high enough that DH and I have argued over whose turn it is to feed DC and whose turn it is to push the pram. (He won because he was going back to work soon and wouldn’t have as much opportunity as me).

New parents can't win. They are judged if they leave their baby to eat dinner and judged if they take their baby with them.

Just to clarify - we both wanted to feed DC and push the pram!

If one of the men was actually the dad. My ex the father of my children wouldn't do any baby care for the first few weeks after they were born. Not because he didn't want to but because he as he put it they are fragile as newborns. He would hold them for a few minutes. But they had to be placed in his arms. He wouldn't pick them up himself. One of his friends said the same. He never held either of our children until they were about 6 months.

Awww bless him... good job you didn't also think they were too fragile till 6 months, hey? Honestly laughable

Agree. It is not normal or right, but it is common. The father of the baby at least should have equally cared for his child. I have seen fathers take an equal role in taking care of their children in church, in public places, school, etc and it is a lovely thing to see. I’ve seen some men take most of the responsibility on so that their wives can enjoy whatever they doing, the service or event, a lunch out. But it is so much more common the scenario you describe. I would say though that a man whose priority is to be a husband and father will not display that kind of selfish behavior. He will be do his fair share and more.

Unfortunately this sort of behaviour is deemed "acceptable" for men. Once, my DH, 1 year old and I met up with a male friend for a drink. At one point, 1 yo needed a nappy change so my DH took her. Male friend then proceeded to tell me DH was "really stepping up there" and how great it was of him to do that. I was like "No WTF it's his child too?!" I was heavily pregnant as well and the baby change was up multiple flights of stairs. Ridiculous.

This is why me and the kids dad don't live together. He thought because he worked and I did not . That I had to look after the kids and him. I have 5 kids 3 not his 2 are . So I was looking after everyone whilst he done nothing. I could never get him to understood that my day did not end at 5pm like his did . Mine was from 7am till at least 11pm and then babys waking throughout the night. All I ever heard was things like "I work " "I'm up at 6am" his mother was/is on the same page as him. He makes comments still that I never ever make him a cup of tea. Fuck off am I making him tea. When I told him things were not working and he had to leave I felt a massive weight had lifted . He's now living with his mum and she's waiting on him hand and foot. And he's being disney dad to the 2 youngest. I don't hate him. But I hate what he done . And he made a comment the other day that shows he still thinks it was/is OK to be that way. Youngest is 7 now and I have never for given him. Kids think the sun shines out of his arse .

I was chatting to a dad of three at a wedding once; he told me when they go on holidays, he travels business class to ‘get a complete break’ while his missus wrangles three kids in the cheap seats. What a prick! I was quite drunk, so told him so 😃

Once my ex booked a restaurant without enquiring about high chairs (DD was about 7 months at the time.) She squirmed like mad and ex said ‘when our food comes, I’ll just eat really quickly’ and of course he ordered some complicated seafood platter where everything had to be wrestled out of shells. My food was staring up at me accusingly,, going cold. The waiter came over and held the baby for me! I was breastfeeding and starving, so I asked for a second main course for me to enjoy at my absolute leisure. The waiter insisted on ‘papa’ taking the baby for a walk. So I won in the end. I love Italian restaurants.

I don't see anywhere near as much of this. I see plenty of Dads everyday out on their own with their DC. Or pushing the buggy if out as a whole family. What I dont see a lot of is men cooing over other babies. If for example someone pops in on mat leave with baby you will get all the blokes have a quick glance at the baby, say hi to the parent and go off and get on with things, whereas the women will all be wanting a cuddle and discussion about how cute chubby cheeks are, who baby looks like and so on. In the example given I can well imagine all the women wanting to help and have a turn holding leaving Dad free to chat and watch sport with the others. Had it just been Mum and Dad it may have been different.

It was a choice. A choice which was enabled.

I was nervous about handling a newborn too but I got on with it because that's what you do when you're a parent.

Unfortunately,this sounds like pretty common behaviour in most father's, from what I witness on a day to day basis.

My DP was very much like those men you described when we had our first DC together. If I’m being honest I played a big part on him being like that as I jumped into automatically doing most of the parenting. He’s certainly not like that now. We have 3DC and he is very hands on with them all and does his equal share of everything around our house. The big change for us and real eye opener for him came when I spent 3 months in hospital. He had no option but to take care of the eldest two pretty much on his own. I was pregnant at the time with our 3rd. He said whilst I was still in hospital I will never let you do the majority of things again because it’s really hard work. He never has and I’ve learned to take a step back and not just jump in to automatically do things.

Sadly some women will settle, or just choose the appropriate husband for reproduction services, then wonder what the heck went wrong. It would be a bit revolutionary to be the one making real choices, to not partake of the cultural pressures to depend, domestically, no men.

Although as pp's say, many men are not like this. I would imagine these people valued security and fertility over quality of life.

on men, not 'no' men.

I said his friend wouldn't hold either of our children until they were 6 months.🤔🙄No biological relation to them at all. Have I made that clear enough to understand? His friend has never had any children.

After a few weeks they're dad was quite happy to tend to them shitty nappies and the lot.

If one of the men there was actually the dad.

This has reminded me of an ill fated trip to a Chinese restaurant when DS was a few months old, DN is only weeks older. DH went off to change DS as food was arriving (baby timing). I realised he had been gone longer than I would've expected, went to get up to check and my brother stopped me and said you enjoy your food while it's hot, I'll check on him DN needs changing anyway I'll take her.
Well DS had had an explosive poonami , with nappy off, the description may have been exaggerated but DH paints a Somme like picture. DH had taken changing bits but not the whole bag, so didn't have enough wipes or change of clothes. Unbeknownst to me I had no reception on my phone.
The two men cleaned up, sorted both babies and came back laughing about it. I had a lovely dinner.
DH isn't perfect and when it comes to household chores etc DB considerably less than, but both see their children as their joint responsibility.

He's the parent. It should've been from day 1, not after a few weeks.

You reminded me of a long haul flight with XH. He sat separately to get some sleep - as he was meant to in the first leg and then we would reverse roles for the second.

He got so drunk they cut him off. When the kids we're finally settle I ordered a G&T for myself, only to learn they'd cut ME off too - he'd been going up to the galley and asking for 2 drinks at a time - one for him, one for me. Of course those drinks never made it to me.

Anyway, he was so drunk I had to swap seats for the second leg and look after the kids myself again. A total of 23 hours flying time plus shepherding a stinking, seething drunk around the airports.

Yes I have seen (and experienced) this at times. It is a shame.

What grinds my gears are the 'show dads'. Help out like they should in public and act like a caring father - but only ever when in front of extended family etc. Never behind closed doors/at home.

They know how they should be acting but just don't bother. 😤

I'd no way expect a man who wasn't the father to dandle someone else's young baby. {Or any baby!}

marriages like hers don’t last OP; she’ll see the light.