To think that cows milk is so bad… yet tastes so good

[Escapefromhell]

I need to give up dairy for my health (and the dairy industry is pretty vile when you look at it). All fine, except I have milk on coffee. Good coffee is one of the crucial things in life. AIBU to think with all the technological advances humanity has made, someone would have come up with a milk replacement that tastes good in coffee without adding a load of sugar. I know there are worse problems in the world.

AIBU to think that all cow milk replacements can only be described as ‘sadness water’?

*Oatly.

Oatly milk is so bad, the amount of oil in the milk and also the sugars in the milk are worse than if you was to drink cows milk!
Oatly milk has broke my milk Frother due to the high fat content, it's highly recommended not to use in milk frothers.
Soya is pretty good in coffee, froths up lovely and is healthier, no real aftertaste either.

I'm vegan and sadly have found no decent substitute for any animal products. The 'milk' is poor, the 'cheese' an abomination, and don't get me started on the 'chocolate'.
The only way to give up animal products for me was to accept those things were no longer part of my diet, and focus on the millions of other things I can still eat and drink, including new things id never bothered with before. So my coffee is black and I drink various teas now too.

If we are going to worry about animal ethics, we also need to be honest about the deaths of animals in crop farming, which are far from insignificant.

Most crops are grown as feed for animals.

What happens to the numbers in that graph if you take account of where the water for each actually comes from (counting the rain falling fron the sky onto pasture as the same as water pumped for miles to irrigate almonds is borderline fraudlent for example).

Does it take into account that grains are often 'double counted' in these studies and e.g (entirely guestinated figures by me) for every tonne of soya bean harvested for soya milk there is 2 tonnes of soya plant wastage that is given to cows for fodder.

The figures then show e.g that cows use twice as much soya as soya milk when in reality it's all the same soya plant but part of it is used for milk and the by product for soya milk production used for animal feed.

When you dig down into a lot of these studies the 'workings out' often show a very different picture.

I prefer not to rely on screenshots of colourful graphs taken from twitter when making informed decisions about the food I eat.

No they aren't. Most crops are grown for human consumption and the by products / low grade leftovers are used in animal feed.

If you take the wheat off the stalk to make flour with and feed the left over stalks as straw to the cows then claim that the cows have eaten 2/3rds of the wheat that has been grown because the actual wheat grains used by humans only make up a small part of the whole plant used, then in my eyes that is fraudulent.

I hated all vegan cheese until I tried the Cathedral City plant based block. It’s very like cheddar. I like oat milk but don’t bother with the chocolate.

Yeah I think a lot of people have just fallen for the media campaigns promoting non dairy milks. It’s clever marketing and is illustrated by op’s opening comment:

• Cows Milk is so bad and I need to give it up for my health*

Cutting out a dash of cows milk in your daily coffee will have zero impact on your health.

I had to go dairy free about ten years ago and the only thing that worked for me was to not have tea or coffee at all because the ones that didn't set off my immune system tasted like crap (either acrid/bitter/burned - all the nut ones - or sickeningly sugary even if they didn't have sugar added - rice, for example).

After a fortnight where my entire functioning as a human being was in question - I couldn't sleep or have a coherent thought in my head - I decided in desperation to have a black coffee.

It tasted amazing. As did a lightly brewed black tea - they both taste simultaneously, lighter, richer, fresher and more complex without anything added to dull the flavours. And my brain decided to start working again.

I tried some standard milk after a year and it was revolting - so sweet, oily, it reminded me of school milk where it had been left out in the classroom all day.

The only time I would ever use a milk substitute now would be for a cold drink/milkshake (iced coffee counts as a milkshake for me) or for cocoa, where coconut works. But it costs a fortune and when black tea/coffee tastes so good now my tastebuds have been 're-educated', I can't be arsed with it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

to all those who doubt the environmental impact of eating meat / drinking milk etc. etc. study after study shows that they are terrible for the environment.

No diet, even vegan, is perfect for the environment but when we compare it to the alternatives, no matter how much you want to try "prove" the stats are wrong, you can't deny it, unless of course, you have your fingers in your ears and most likely anyone still promoting dairy as somehow sustainable has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo e.g. are a dairy farmer.

@greenlychee

but when push comes to shove and I make a decision I care more about my personal nutrition than the environment 🤷‍♀️.

I absolutely agree, it's hopeless trying to be vegan and substituting, you just have to eat completely differently to how you did before.

That's study after study based on deliberately misleading data, usually funded by upf production companies.

I have no links to food production companies and a long, long history of environmental campaigning with a former career in international aid NGOs after a short stint in journalism. I know how data is manipulated and why. I started looking into this because on a base level it doesn't make sense. And once I started getting beyond the kind of repackaged press release you linked to, it's clear that the current narrative is just the modern "73% of doctors smoke Camel." Big companies have always and likely will always do this.

Vegetarian (not vegan) and try to be mindful when choosing dairy products/eggs etc. But made a switch to soy milk in tea several years ago (and oat milk for porridge/muesli/pancakes etc). We buy British and organic for both of these. I rarely use cows milk now as we are just used to the taste of the alternatives and it tastes weird. I wouldn't use the barista versions of any plant milks though, full of oil and thickeners.

If you give up dairy, your palate changes after a few months. Cow’s milk will taste a bit rancid, like that full fat milk they’d leave in the sun all morning then force you to drink at school 🤮

Maybe you do, but many people who claim they must consume milk (or other animal products) for ‘nutrition’ and health, fill their face full of shit, consume lots of processed foods and are overweight. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My in-laws like to make digs at me being vegan every time I order a vegan meal in a restaurant, lots of talk about processed vegan shite. 🙄 They don’t have healthy diets and are all fat, yet talk about their nutrition as if their body is a temple.

I can't stand milk alternatives; they taste manufactured (because they are) and to me they just aren't an alternative. We buy milk that is locally sourced from higher welfare animals. Even though cow's milk is produced for baby cows, it is still a good source of nutrients for humans. Lactose free milk might be a good option for you?

@WithyouFromDuskTilDawn

Sounds like both camps are as bad as each other with both camps eating shit, processed food.

If you think drinking the milk of another animal is odd, just think about how odd it is to manufacture lots of substitutes for the milk of another animal, and for products made with the milk of another animal. Why do people drink fake milk or eat fake cheese at all if the idea of the original on which the fake is based is so disgusting?

Some people drink camel's milk. It is extremely expensive and difficult to source but you can buy it in the UK.

I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t eat much processed food. It just makes me laugh when people say they eat animal products for their health but are far from healthy. Most vegans I know aren’t actually vegan for health, it’s mainly just because they don’t like animals being exploited.

@WithyouFromDuskTilDawn

I don’t actually care about how other people eat to be honest. I know a couple of vegans, I mean I think they’re fucking mental lol but it’s up to them and they have their reasons. I don’t think anyone needs to justify how they eat really. I for one, hope I can easily source meat and dairy products in my lifetime and it will be a cold day in hell if I have to substitute cows milk for something else.

Because the disgust often comes from the bad treatment of animals I suppose or maybe the environmental issues, not the taste. Seems fairly obvious.

OP do you actually need to give up milk (lactose intolerance or something) or have you just that it’s bad for you by someone either with an orthorexic outlook on food or someone who dislike milk for animal welfare/environmental reasons who’s trying to justify their choices further by claiming animal products are also and for you.
Cows milk is nutritionally superior to plants based substitutes.

Oat milk the barista one type is delicious in coffee