100k+ salary, is it worth it?

[Goingtogetslated]

For the record…Not trying to be insensitive…

partner and I both earn approx 150k each. Working long and unpredictable hours with high levels of stress and responsibility.

Yet here we are living in a 3 bed terrace in the east end of london, a basic car, neither of us into high end expenses/dining out/clothes. We used to holiday a lot pre children, I guess would classify as our major expenditure in the past.

But is it actually worth it? A decent 4/5 bed house (with kerb appeal I admit) in the commuter belt seems to be coming in at 1.5 million minimum. Add the commuting costs/ extended nursery hours, paid help required theres barely anything left - relatively speaking.

Would we not be better off sacking it all in, moving to the countryside and earning enough to pay the bills?

We appear to be stuck in this middle ground where we earn too much to have any allowances from the state, contribute a lot to the government yet not enough for any real benefits in lifestyle

No family help, not ex-LA. I would have loved ex-LA, they few that do come on the market here are great properties.

@Tealsofa they will both be paying high % to pension too probably.

Not op but I know people who have a very high salary monthly but then after pension, energy, other bills, council tax, finance arrangements for 2 cars, nursery and private school fees and food it’s almost gone.

I haven't read all the comments and totally understand the point you are making. What area do you both work? Are you able to work from home a decent chunk of the week?

How old are your children? Childcare costs are vast but do increase / disapear the older the children get.

Have you considered reducing your hours to bring you (just) under £100k - the income tax situation over £100k coupled with the lack of help with childcare costs makes the take home shocking when you work through the figures.

We lived in London in when we had children. We did choose to move out for varrious reasons, the main largely boiling down to why pay a premium for a small house for its location when you no longer get the full benefit of the location.

We moved from 4 bed Victorian semi with a small garden to a large farmhouse with land - the farmhouse was cheaper!

I predominantly work from home, have not compromised salary and go into London when I choose - largely based upon social considerations. My journey is only 10 mins longer in duration than when we lived in London in Zone 2.

If you need to be office based every day it's not so easy as you will still be reliant on wraparound care so bear that in mind - but I certainly think you have plenty of options available to you, you just need to consider what it is you want - the more you work from home, the further you can move and the cheaper it gets.

Well presumably you bought a good few years ago?
East London used to be a the wrong side of town. Then Shoreditch sprung up and the whole place got gentrified.
Same for Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets.. and similar

About four years ago.

Yes sorry probably not the best word to use. I agree a nice lifestyle and financial security is what I would expect. A nice lifestyle to me would be my kids being able to do the activities they like, same for DH and I plus a family holiday and maybe some weekend trips, plus being able to save enough to top up DHs pension which is not great. I wouldn't want more than a normal size 3/4 bed terrace personally and not fussed about fancy cars really. It really depends what is priority and its likely that the OP is looking at the big status things such as big house in a fancy area. Which is fine of course and no one else's business but let's be realistic about what is affordable these days.

I do not understand how people manage mortgages right now, particularly people who have bought in the last 5/6 years. For complicated reasons for a relative I bought a house on a buy to let mortgage. The fixed rate ran out and the mortgage is now £200 a month more (mortgage £150k). We are limited on mortgage offers also as apparently don't charge enough rent to be offered more. We put 25% deposit down and have £90k plus equity. We use the money we earn to pay for MILs care home fees so it's not like we are spending the money ourselves. We will benefit in the long term of course.

The point is that we are in a privileged position but the way things have changed means we are hundred of pounds a month worse off than we were a couple of years ago, I am good with money and good at managing it all but its not unbelievable that some people aren't and struggle to sort themselves out when earning a lot more.

This OP.
You can get a train into London for 2 hours. This might be doable if you work PT, can WFH. If you barely see your kids now - at least you can see them fully on your 'non-working' days

Sorry I’ve not RTFT, but I think your housing expectations may be a bit off. Around me (Bucks/ Herts borders) there are some fab places for less than that with excellent schools, lovely communities, decent and not too expensive commute which cost a lot less. I think you are right that you won’t afford the classic Georgian rectory with stables and a pool at this point but you’ll definitely get more than a 3 bed semi. But if you shave off 1-2k from a monthly mortgage that’s a decent holiday to the Caribbean every 6 months. So it’s all about priorities.

I think this is mainly about housing costs.

you obviously own a house at the moment. Which will have some equity.

You can obviously afford a big mortgage.

However, the house you want is more expensive than you can afford.

That's the case for millions and millions of people whether they earn £25k or £150k.

Most people have to go through a few stages until they get the house they want ( or they never get there).

Sounds like you want to jump a couple of stages in the housing ladder.

I think there is a lot of truth in this.

@Goingtogetslated is looking at the lifestyle she believes they should have for a joint income of £300k. The problem is that to earn that they are probably spending most of one income on outsourcing all the household jobs to be in the position to earn that money.

The only way I could have the all consuming job was for DH to be SAHP. This meant that I could work late, start early. Go off on a business trip at almost no notice.

DH and DC had a lovely life but I was never part of it.

I’ve name changed for this as it appears anyone who is a high earner attracts a lot of negative comments.
I hear you OP. I earn £130k. My friend earns £35k. After tax and after I have paid mortgage, childcare, commuting costs, professional loans and fees my friend actually has MORE disposable income than me at the end of the month. We live on the same road, similar lives but she pays far less tax, gets childcare support and child benefit etc.
I do often think why am I working 60+ hours a week and barely seeing my kids, would it be better to drop to a lower paid role.

I understand this. Tbh I don't really understand why people do it. And even living in London you can spend 45 mins travelling. I used to live in Hackney and it would take me that time door to door to get to work in the city. Three bed Victorian houses in the nice area I lived in (Victoria Park) are now £1.5 mill.

Nowadays I live up north in a national park in a three bedroom cottage that is valued at £450k. I work from home and go into offices in Leeds or Manchester. It's only 90 mins door to door and if you are not doing it daily it is fine - rather nice actually!

We earn £115k between us and have a very nice life.

All the schools are great and there is loads of space and fresh air.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/131910152#/?channel=RES_NEW

For example this sort of thing- there are also lovely older character houses (but less likely to have parking etc), plus places like Berko, St Albans are very much “naice” places with lots to do, cafe culture and good schools (so you can avoid going private for secondaries which is another chunk of budget saved).

In addition .. a lot of the 'shocked' posters have the 'same' opinion as the OP.
Anywhere else in the country 300K combined would be a fortune. Around here OP's desired property would be well within reach. What's more childcare etc can be cheaper. Nobody would even consider 'commuting' that far when they could buy close to the office.

London is a whole different ballgame, driven by people with disproportionate wealth and salaries. You can't just rely on earning a 'good' salary.

NB - I never quite understand why stating you're highly paid BUT you work long hard hours etc sets you apart from those on very low wages who also work long hard hours. The most antisocial hours are done by those the government doesn't want to pay a fair wage to and on whom we all depend. No paramedic is getting 150k...but they're working seriously hard.

I don’t think you understand quite how hard city workers work; those in finance/law will be expected to do 60-70 hours a week every week without complaint, opting out of the WTD. Of course healthcare workers work exceptionally hard too but they are paid 60 hours if they ever need to do a 60 hour week and they are not allowed to do that routinely. There are some unpaid hours eg delays in handover but this is seen to be unacceptable and there is pressure to ensure compensation for those hours.

City work is a brutal life - they own you for that salary you are paid.

LOL - there is nothing quite like the self justification of high earners in the city who genuinely think they work harder than everyone else and 'earn' their money. I can see why you have to tell yourself this but it really really isn't true.

It's greedy.

You don't want to compromise on anything. And feel entitled to that.

Rather than seeing what you have got, you are acting like Violet in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory stamping her foot wanting MORE.

The reality is, you would never be happy, regardless of income you'd always be in the position of wanting that MORE. You'd just add to the demands on the wish list.

Wrap your head about the never being satisfied thing rather than whinging at everyone else.

I've been working in the City for 15 years and it's NOT true. You don't actually have to work any harder than a paramedic or a nurse to earn £150K. It's an utter myth. You don't have to "sell your soul to the devil" for a high-paying job in the City. Also, the higher up you are the more work you can delegate. Yes, there is stress, but most jobs are stressful and pay significantly less.

@Goingtogetslated you should have popped your hard hat on for this post! I mean, how DARE you complain that your hard earned income is not enough for a home and lifestyle that would likely be available in another country? In any sane world, a gross income of £300k for a family of 4(?) should allow you to have a 4/5 bedroom house in an affluent part of London with plenty leftover to cover childcare, private education, holidays, fancy cars, at home help and other luxuries. I think it’s mad that it’s not enough to cover all of that and I totally believe you when you say it’s not. The answer probably is to leave London unfortunately. I say this as someone with half of your gross income (which is still a lot) in an affluent part of Herts currently doing a budget to see if we can afford to buy a 3/4 bedroom 1930s house, private education for one child and an annual holiday. The answer is probably not and I think that’s absolutely insane given how much we earn!

Or this sort of thing, which will require renovation (but you can do it in your own time and won’t be paying interest), could be a fantastic family house (look at the properties around it) and in a very sought after area. I think you need to modify your housing expectations given the area you’re in, then I think most of the rest of the lifestyle expectations will become more achievable, especially once childcare costs go down.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/131240324#/?channel=RES_BUY

There is a middle ground to what you're describing. You're not in the middle ground. I would say we are, 6 figure household (just) but live 2 hours out of London (hybrid working) live a nice lifestyle with regular holidays and detached decent sized house, we could earn more chasing corporate careers in london, but our lifestyle would likely not improve.

jeez,, I'd love 1,500 a month left over!

Make lifestyle changes, change where you shop for food, clothes, etc and the number / type of social activities you do. Find cheaper alternatives - shop at Aldi not waitrose, buy supermarket clothes not brand clothes for example, sign up to discount sites like voucher codes, and top cash back, cut back on drinking if you drink, beauty treatments, gym etc, and look for a bigger house in a different area and commute in, reset your expectations about where you want to live.

Its really not that hard OP

I have a colleague who lives in greater London in a 3 bed terraced that is tiny, worth half a mil, whilst I live in a 4 bed detached with garden front and back and an attached garage in a different part of the country. Both of us are home based with limited travel for work. He's fucking mad (his wife also works hybrid).

oops forgot to say my house is worth under 250,000. So its do-able - just move!

Ultimately it's simply all about keeping up with the Jones'and believing that your salary should translate into status.

That's not how it works.

What's more once the mortgage is paid off and the kids are grown up, where will you be in terms of lifestyle?

It's not just that you want the lifestyle and status. You want it NOW.

Funny, I’ve also been working in the City for 15 years too and it absolutely is true. My sister is a nurse and underpaid but categorically doesn’t work the same hours that I work, nor does she take her work with her when she goes on holiday!