100k+ salary, is it worth it?

[Goingtogetslated]

For the record…Not trying to be insensitive…

partner and I both earn approx 150k each. Working long and unpredictable hours with high levels of stress and responsibility.

Yet here we are living in a 3 bed terrace in the east end of london, a basic car, neither of us into high end expenses/dining out/clothes. We used to holiday a lot pre children, I guess would classify as our major expenditure in the past.

But is it actually worth it? A decent 4/5 bed house (with kerb appeal I admit) in the commuter belt seems to be coming in at 1.5 million minimum. Add the commuting costs/ extended nursery hours, paid help required theres barely anything left - relatively speaking.

Would we not be better off sacking it all in, moving to the countryside and earning enough to pay the bills?

We appear to be stuck in this middle ground where we earn too much to have any allowances from the state, contribute a lot to the government yet not enough for any real benefits in lifestyle

OP a lot of your upset stems from what you think you ‘should’ have and this is probably based on what someone at your career level and type of earnings would have had 30 years ago.

A nice say 3/4 bed terrace in a decent part of London or a larger Surrey commuter type house would have been very affordable for that level of salary then. Now it’s just not and that can be difficult - you work hard, get a good job and the spoils are nowhere near what you thought they would be. It’s tough but once you don’t need childcare it will get easier

Move. Move out of London and live in another city where house prices are not insane, and where you can still earn a decent salary but have a far better quality of life for you and your children. Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool maybe. All have great suburbs where you could buy a really nice family home for much less than you'd pay in London. And with good schools and a far easier commute. The quality of life is just so much better. I moved from East London to the north many years ago and have never regretted it. It baffles me now why people continue to live in London, and how on earth they can afford to.

@Goingtogetslated sorry - should have @‘d you. See message above!

You’ve been given a hard time OP but that link is fucking ridiculous and does nothing to make your point. That house is nobody’s idea of a ‘nondescript new build’. It is over 4000sq with SIX double bedrooms, four with en-suite, four reception rooms and large separate double garage. If that is your idea of a ‘family home’ then no wonder you are struggling with the next step.

This!!!! "Nondescript". Jesus. That house is stunning.

You're not earning enough to be living in London. That salary would be great elsewhere in the country and would allow you to have a wonderful property. My only friendss who are well off in London are all on 7 figure salaries. I live in the north of England and have a much lower income but have just as good a statndard of living.

You honestly have no idea

A decent house in the commuter belt doesn't come in at 1.5mil for a start. I'm not sure if anyone else has challenged that yet as I haven't read the full thread.
There are plenty of decent houses for far less than that which are commutable to London.
I think you are being deliberately insensitive.
When a 300k salary isn't cutting it you really have to start asking yourself some serious questions.
I'm really glad I have now moved out of London and the awful mentality that comes with it.

Just going to add a thought: Be careful what expectations you are modelling for your kids. I cringe at some of the things my kids think of as normal. I've tried to explain to them how lucky they are, and they seem to be aware but, for various reasons, the kids of those who earn a lot may not be able to replicate this when they are grown. It's a long way to come down for some people.

If your health is shot to pieces then your income will pay for the care you need unless you then have no income, when you will rely on the NHS

Oh hang on, the NHS has a few problems at the moment

I was told several years ago, money is nice but give something back to the Community otherwise you will never understand how people less fortunate than you are coping 😳😔

I voted YABU - not because of what you said but because you fail to recognise your options and your lifestage.

Firstly, the childcare years are always expensive - we saved very little at this stage.

Most people I know in London who have gorgeous houses, private schools, nannies etc earn more than you - banking and hedge funds in the main.

Most high earners, I would put you in this category, who want the big house more space move out of London. Some just to the home counties so easily commutable, others quite some distance away.

I guess you need to decide how much you love your jobs and how often you need to be in the office

There's an awful lot of jealousy on this thread. If you had a joint income of £300k would you all be expecting to not have spare money for lots of luxuries

But not if you spend all your money on the luxury of a large house in a nice area of London.

Luxuries aren't just physical goods but the location, short commute and exclusivity of something that is in short supply with no possibility of any more being made.

Say someone decided they were going to build enough spacious 4 bedroom detached houses in Central London and sell them at a price that anyone who wanted could pay.

WHERE WOULD THEY PUT THEM?

Move out of London. Earn less but buy a beautiful home with a better standard of living.

I don’t know if it’s been asked already but why can’t you afford a £1.3-1.5m house on your salaries? A lot of people have a mortgage that’s 4-5 times their salary and presumably you have some equity too. Your combined take home pay must be around £13-15k(?) so £6k mortgage doesn’t seem that bad in your circumstances?

Long term you will be better off and it is balancing the short and long term to see what you want from life. Child care costs will reduce somewhat, although you will obviously need wraparound care but it isn't as expensive as full time nursery. And when you have paid off your mortgage you will have a million plus asset rather than one worth 3/4/500k and an amazing pension meaning you should be able to retire early if you cash in by moving to a cheaper area. You can't have your cake and eat it unfortunately but you do need to decide what is the most important thing to you. I don't know how old you are but you might even have enough equity to significantly reduce housing costs if you move now.

Personally I'm happier with a smaller house, more time with my kids and less stress but I don't have such a long term outlook.

@Goingtogetslated

I obviously don’t know what you spend your money on but it sounds like you either don’t manage it brilliantly or have huge outgoings eg mortgage.

But I think I understand where you’re coming from with your post. I don’t earn very much and probably lead the life in the countryside you’re talking about. I sometimes wonder if I should push to get a better paid job and break into that higher earner bracket (I probably could if I was prepared for the extra stress and responsibilities) but IMO I’m not sure it’s worth it.

I would pay a shit load of tax and have a ton more stress and not be there for my kids and I actually think just being able to pay the bills and have a few nice extras is more than enough.

Having just seen that non descript over 4000 sq foot newbuild, I now realise the OP is totally delusional. The average property size in the country is about 700 square feet.
Anything over 2000 square feet would be considered very large, that property is over double that. Just plain greedy.

There's an awful lot of jealousy on this thread. If you had a joint income of £300k would you all be expecting to not have spare money for lots of luxuries

I actually hate the word ‘luxury’ and the way it is used on mumsnet.

If I earned that I would expect a nice lifestyle and financial security. Luxury is subjective. I’ve seen on mumsnet it mean having cushions on your sofa.

The point about money is the more you have the more choices you have. That is what the thread is about. Her choices.

I haven't read 19 pages, but OP's numbers don't add up.

2k for 8-6 nursery for 2 kids? It would be close on that for 1 kid in London! 250/person commuting costs? Only if you're living centrally (which brings back to the nursery costs being weirdly low)

DH and I earn less combined than one of you does alone. But we have a large detached house in a nice place with lots going on for the DC, good schools and less than 2 hours on the train to London. DH travels extensively for work and doesn't find connections and issue. We have a good quality of life, plenty of treats, loads of extra curricular for the DC and they get to do all the school trips etc. We both mostly work from home and do a lot of the school runs etc ourselves .We don't have amazing cars or luxury holidays but we're not those kinds of people.

I wouldn't swap places with you ever tbh.

NB - I never quite understand why stating you're highly paid BUT you work long hard hours etc sets you apart from those on very low wages who also work long hard hours. The most antisocial hours are done by those the government doesn't want to pay a fair wage to and on whom we all depend. No paramedic is getting 150k...but they're working seriously hard.

The problem with commuting is that unless all the jobs are in a similar place (think Canary Wharf) you're at risk of being in the 'wrong' side of London when you change jobs.
Also it's not just that. Slaving away to 'barely see your children'.

The sad truth is 300K combined in London is not a lot when there are so many others that a) earn a lot more and b) have family help to buy. This might sound ridiculous , but that's why these houses cost that much. Also you're competing with investors and their ilk. I'm a software developer and many of my contractor colleagues in London had a day rate of £300 an hour. A 7 hour day, 20 days a month, that's 63K a MONTH. Even after pension, sick days etc they still made bank especially as their taxes were much lower as a 'limited company!'.

Anyway, like you I couldn't be arsed. Moved out to Manchester early in my career. We have a much better life here, and more importantly no pressure. In fact I can afford to hop on the train and do lots more in London because all my money isn't going on rent and commuting... compared to when I actually lived there!

It's not worth it OP. Unless you can go self-employed.

I actually really do see what you’re saying op. You’re working many hours, with the stress and relentlessness of a high pressure job. The tax you pay on £150,000 is enormous. Then take out pension. Realistically you won’t take home much more than someone on £100,000. And if you earnt just under that you would get the tax free childcare.

Money doesn’t go far in London. Once you have a high mortgage and high childcare costs, your standard of living will be far lower than the expectation you and others would have of your high income. Really this is proof of the saying what you earn isn’t the important thing. Your disposable income is what impacts your lifestyle the most.

I think you’re best to balance it up. What would you earn out of London? Half? Less? Compare mortgage/childcare/life costs and go from there. I do suspect you would be better to earn less and spend far less by moving out of London. Even things like children’s activities, the price of coffee and hidden extras/costs will make a difference.

in terms of who can afford these houses.

1. inherited wealth
2. getting on the property ladder years ago. I know multiple civil servants on very average incomes who have beautiful places in Hackney and Islington, purely because they bought 20+ years ago

Agree. A friend moved from west London to Market Harborough, which looks like it it miles away. The train runs into St Pancras in around an hour and takes her to just near work. Her journey whilst living in London meant a train to Euston and then the tube which took considerably longer. She has a lovely 6 bed house on a new development for about a quarter of the price she would get in London and the town is lovely too.

It surprises me that people call OP entitled. She's not. She just wanted something to show for her ' high ' salary. It's like, how much money do you have to make nowadays to get a very nice house ?

Some people would think that 300 k a year is enough to have a little mansion. It definitely used to be.

All this thread does, is highlight the discrepancy between house prices and wages.

It's even worse for low earning families.

@Goingtogetslated

I'm single - no kids.

112k euro gross

67k euros take home after tax and pension and social charges (taxes very high here). In Paris. 3 bed flat. Mortgage. Permanently exhausted by work.

5583 a month left take home.

2250 Mortgage
492 Utilities + Bills + Insurance + Public transport card
468 Cleaning Lady

Thats 3210

So afterwards I have 2373 left

About 500 goes on food shopping and washing powder etc
About 250 on taxis Ubers from when I leave the office very late (after 10pm)
About 70 for various subscriptions (Amazon Prime, Netflix, Audible)

So afterwards I have about 1550 left a month.

I probably spend 240 ish on eating out at restaurants and bars ( mainly work lunches and after work drinks)

I often think of kicking it all in and escaping to the country side where I could live on much much less.

I'm aware I'm comfortable and lucky but I'm just so exhausted by work the whole time. I also have the cleaning lady so much because I'm mainly out of the door very early and back very late, the taxi cost is also directly related to work. Everything in Paris just seems so expensive. I still have nice moments and don't have to look at the price of things in the supermarket (although I get a shock at checkout) but it isn't the life I imagined as a single person on 112k euros gross a year!

Out of curiosity what do you do with your money?