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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I the villain here?

109 replies

GilChesterton · 22/04/2023 18:38

I work for a regional branch of a large company. During the pandemic I was promoted to manager of our branch, and then promoted a junior member of our team into the role I had just vacated. We worked from home all through the pandemic and various lockdowns, and only in the middle of last year did we start to look at moving to return to the office.

I have instructed our team that they can continue to work from home some of the time, but have to have a minimum amount of time in person in the office. This one member of staff is refusing to return to our office, and during one of the lockdowns actually relocated to be nearer his family, and is not in commutable distance of our office.

Our jobs can technically be done wholly remote, but I feel we lose a lot of team working, accountability and quality if we are not meeting in person regularly, and providing a proper service to our clients does mean being available in person.

I have issued an ultimatum to this team member, saying they either have to follow the guidance or find another job. I am now being accused of ruining his life.

Given the job can be done remote I have begun to doubt myself. AIBU?

OP posts:
Inkblue · 22/04/2023 22:20

bamboonights · 22/04/2023 22:13

Spot on. It seems every call centre or customer services department has retained its shitty "sorry we can't answer the phone right now but we are experiencing a very high volume of calls" attitude and it's unacceptable. Every time you need to sort out a utility bill or such like you need to take a morning or afternoon off work. This week I need urgent advice about signage for my business. It transpires that there is no way of speaking to a human being AT ALL, and there are just pages and pages of information and a request for an application fee, for an application I simply don't understand.

This. It’s become impossible to speak to anyone these days.

Arightoldcarryabag · 22/04/2023 22:20

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moonspiral · 22/04/2023 22:22

He's ruined his own life

determinedtomakethiswork · 22/04/2023 22:22

He is ruining his own life. He's done that all by himself. What a complete idiot, moving house. Does he really think pandemic conditions were going to last forever?

moonspiral · 22/04/2023 22:23

It's like people who got a lock down puppy then complain about leaving it for a day

Arightoldcarryabag · 22/04/2023 22:27

Inkblue · 22/04/2023 22:20

This. It’s become impossible to speak to anyone these days.

It's impossible to speak to someone because companies are prioritising dividend payments to shareholders over investing in staff, in training and in their processes. Because managers get rid of experienced staff because they would rather that than manage a situation of their own making like in this case here.

Arightoldcarryabag · 22/04/2023 22:28

determinedtomakethiswork · 22/04/2023 22:22

He is ruining his own life. He's done that all by himself. What a complete idiot, moving house. Does he really think pandemic conditions were going to last forever?

Maybe work from home was impossible or very difficult in the last place they lived. Maybe closer to home/family was the only place they could afford the space to do it comfortably?
Suited the business needs then didn't it.

evuscha · 22/04/2023 22:33

You didn’t ruin his life - I was looking with disbelief at all those people moving away (and even buying houses) to rural locations expecting to just WFH forever. Unless your office officially allows fully remote then he’s the unreasonable one. One or two days in the office is a good compromise.

Nottheduracellbunny · 22/04/2023 22:40

This reply has been withdrawn

Message withdrawn - posted on wrong thread

PocketBattleship · 22/04/2023 23:12

evuscha · 22/04/2023 22:33

You didn’t ruin his life - I was looking with disbelief at all those people moving away (and even buying houses) to rural locations expecting to just WFH forever. Unless your office officially allows fully remote then he’s the unreasonable one. One or two days in the office is a good compromise.

Agreed. WFH was never intended to be permanent so that was a foolish assumption. I've heard tell of workers in the USA relocating hundreds and hundreds of miles away from their offices, then reacting with predictable horror when instructed to report in person.

For curiosity @GilChesterton what family are we talking here, parents/siblings or is this someone who took a job away from his wife and kids? Not that it makes a difference but it might help us understand his motivation.

Clarinet1 · 22/04/2023 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn - posted on wrong thread

I think you need to start a separate thread!

WhiteBloatus · 22/04/2023 23:34

You are not unreasonable to expect him to be office based some of the time given that these were the conditions he was employed on. He was taking a chance moving a non commutable distance away without discussing it first.
He needs to put in a formal request, at which point you can discuss and decide what concessions if any can be made, I guess somewhat dependant on how valuable he is within your team, but I would be viewing his emotional manipulation extremely dimly.

SpudsandGravy · 22/04/2023 23:43

It sounds to me as though your company must have a policy on this, and that you're not senior enough to be making up a local rule if it doesn't reflect the national policy. I'm not suggesting that you're doing that, btw: I'm simply saying that I think you need to make sure you know what the company's policy is and make sure that your staff adhere to it.

In the organisation I work in staff are divided up between about 5 very large groups. The organisation had a policy this year of staff needing to be in the office more than they were at home i.e. 3 days in, 2 at home. The newly appointed manager of the group I work in decided that 'her' staff would spend 4 days in the office and no more than 1 at home. This kind of thing isn't appropriate, imo.

JMSA · 23/04/2023 02:04

YANBU. At all. If he assumed that WFH was going to continue indefinitely/daily, that's tough shit for him.

JudgeRudy · 23/04/2023 03:21

It's odd that the company watched whilst he put his home on the market and moved....but said nothing.
He could formally request flexibility to work from home and your company would have yo legally consider this. I don't think saying it affects the vibe of the team would be a good enough reason to refuse his request. You need to speak with HR. What would happen if the majority of the team said they wanted to wfh permanently.? What impact would it have on the business

Tooyoungtofeelthisold · 23/04/2023 03:29

Lockdown wasn't ever going to last forever. He made a permanent move in response to a temporary solution.
The temporary solution is no longer required, so he needs to make a choice, a choice that has to be made by him, because of the action he took of moving.

That's not your fault, it's simply taking responsibility for his own actions.

Phoebo · 23/04/2023 03:44

YANBU. Fair enough to want people in the office, it makes a huge difference to most things. Everyone working remotely is not the same. If he wants to wfh he can get another job. You dont owe him an income. Cheeky fker!

sausage767 · 23/04/2023 04:32

We based ourselves at our country house during covid but still kept our city apartment. We share our time, mostly in the country but return to the city when we need to be in the office. We both accept that if something comes up we have to jump in the car and do the 2 hour drive to the office. It’s just the way it is.

SkyandSurf · 23/04/2023 04:41

If you let him WFH full time it sets a precedent for other people in the team, including future hires.

It makes no sense to approve it, it might please him only to displease ten more people and give yourself ten more problems.

That's the policy, there's a reason for it, he can do the job or leave.

You're not a villain.

custardbear · 23/04/2023 06:24

He was stupid to move! It's in his contract to be office based. Can he transfer to another office?
I have one staff member who remains WFH after lockdown, everyone else is in at least 3 days a week, the staff member wfh because he's vulnerable and we're based in a hospital, but also he does a specialised job so needs 1 base for large equipment so hybrid working doesn't work, plus him being at home doesn't impact the team in any way.
We have other staff who live sone distance and either rent a room/flat nearby or stay in a hotel

justlurkinghere · 23/04/2023 06:29

He was silly to relocate and think he could WFH forever. Whether you allow it depends on how much it matters that he is present in person.

If I found out a team member was allowed to work 100% from home though, I'd be asking for the same.

SorePaw · 23/04/2023 06:49

sausage767 · 23/04/2023 04:32

We based ourselves at our country house during covid but still kept our city apartment. We share our time, mostly in the country but return to the city when we need to be in the office. We both accept that if something comes up we have to jump in the car and do the 2 hour drive to the office. It’s just the way it is.

Yes, because everyone can afford a country pile & an inner city apartment can't they.

Figmentof · 23/04/2023 06:53

I think you should stick to your guns. There is value in coming into an office and working with colleagues face to face. As one example, I started a new job in the middle of last year, I guess I could have got through the basics with training over the phone and on teams, but I learned just as much from overhearing things around me, from the person beside me asking a question, informal learning I call it. I think a team is poorer when they all sit at home alone.

I also don’t think you should let this person dictate what they will do, they have a place of work, they need to turn up. And even if it does come to them leaving, it is leaving a job, it is not life ruining.

drpet49 · 23/04/2023 07:10

Greensleeves · 22/04/2023 18:49

Well, you kind of are ruining his life. Even if you are in the right legally (I have no idea, it depends on his contract) I think morally you are being petty and unreasonable. If he can do the job from home, he should be allowed to.

Lol ruining his life. No the OP has done no such thing.

drpet49 · 23/04/2023 07:11

Tooyoungtofeelthisold · 23/04/2023 03:29

Lockdown wasn't ever going to last forever. He made a permanent move in response to a temporary solution.
The temporary solution is no longer required, so he needs to make a choice, a choice that has to be made by him, because of the action he took of moving.

That's not your fault, it's simply taking responsibility for his own actions.

This!