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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I the villain here?

109 replies

GilChesterton · 22/04/2023 18:38

I work for a regional branch of a large company. During the pandemic I was promoted to manager of our branch, and then promoted a junior member of our team into the role I had just vacated. We worked from home all through the pandemic and various lockdowns, and only in the middle of last year did we start to look at moving to return to the office.

I have instructed our team that they can continue to work from home some of the time, but have to have a minimum amount of time in person in the office. This one member of staff is refusing to return to our office, and during one of the lockdowns actually relocated to be nearer his family, and is not in commutable distance of our office.

Our jobs can technically be done wholly remote, but I feel we lose a lot of team working, accountability and quality if we are not meeting in person regularly, and providing a proper service to our clients does mean being available in person.

I have issued an ultimatum to this team member, saying they either have to follow the guidance or find another job. I am now being accused of ruining his life.

Given the job can be done remote I have begun to doubt myself. AIBU?

OP posts:
SquidwardBound · 22/04/2023 19:09

FlyingCherries · 22/04/2023 19:07

Have you recruited much recently? The labour market is very tight. If he’s any good, it might be worth compromising rather than trying to recruit a replacement.

Not if it causes 3 other people to leave because they feel they’re being treated worse than him.

BananaSpanner · 22/04/2023 19:11

He was stupid to move house without a guarantee that he could work from home permanently. That is his problem not yours.

Ive been in a similar position. Our department can work remotely but we function better as a team when we are all in. Following the pandemic there was a real reluctance to return to the office and some really dug their heels in. Two staff members left but have been replaced by two very good and keen new people. The remaining staff are used to it again now, and Will begrudgingly admit that we are more effective in the office. However, there is still plenty of scope for flexibility and letting people work from home on an ad hoc basis when they have a pressing need.

Hold your ground.

Suzi888 · 22/04/2023 19:13

Is he reliable and does he do a good job?

We are hybrid. For an exceptional candidate we would allow 100% remote, but with say two hotel stays a year for a couple of days or overnight to meet the team etc. (Management roles only which are audit/subsidy/stat report based).

Restinggoddess · 22/04/2023 19:16

For those of us who worked face to face during the pandemic- the fact that some people are still working from home bemuses me

If we ring a company these days - it takes ages for someone to answer
WFH seems to be an excuse not to work at the standard once held in offices where people could see what was going on
Time for a return to the office - some of us never left the workplace during covid

Oysterbabe · 22/04/2023 19:19

We've recently hired a couple of junior staff and I've been going in every day to support them. They've spent a lot of time looking over my shoulder, I've fielded a steady stream of questions, they've listened to me talking to clients etc.

WFH has it's place but if your job is hybrid you can't whine about going in.

Hereward1332 · 22/04/2023 19:22

With many jobs it's possible to WFH and perform most of your job ok. What you miss is sharing ideas between teams; helping less experienced staff who you overhear struggling; learning from others. A solo mentality is the mark of a "computer says no" type. It's possible to WFH, but diminishes the effectiveness of the whole. OP is not unreasonable in wanting the best performance for her team, and that means no-one works entirely remotely.

Daffidale · 22/04/2023 19:23

GilChesterton · 22/04/2023 18:51

"regardless of where the person is?"

If they are not available at short notice then we can offer less of a service to our clients, who are more and more expecting us to return to an in person service. If someone else then has to cover it places a burden on the rest of the team (or our clients go elsewhere).

This sounds like it’s not really true that the work can be done entirely remotely. Or at least people need to be able to be available in person for client work, often at short notice.

I think you are both being a bit unreasonable TBH. He chose to move an “uncommutable” distance from where his job is located and is now blaming you for the consequences. You’re issuing ultimatums. What’s not clear is whether the two of you have had a grown up, professional conversation about how to make this work. Can he travel in once a week, or for a run of a few days each month? And definitely you need to discuss how he is going to make himself available at short notice for clients.

If this doesn’t work for him at all, then given he is presumably an otherwise valued employee, can you facilitate him finding a new role within the organisation at another office closer to his new home? I would perhaps offer an exception for eg 6 months with support to seek a lateral move, but with understanding that after 6 months it’s either suck up a long commute once a week, or find another job

Ilovetea42 · 22/04/2023 19:30

With the cost of rent and mortgages in certain areas I can see why he took the opportunity, a girl I know was able to save 1500 a month on rent moving in with her parents during covid and it meant she didn't have to isolate alone with no support. However he should have made work aware of this. Can he provide short notice zoom or teams support and provide 'face to face' support that way? I would suggest that nobody can always be available for in person short notice meetings because life happens. But if a client can sit down with him remotely and cover the same concerns and information then I'd say you're still providing an adequate service. The kicker here will be the knock on effect on other staff. If you allow him to work solely or mainly from home you'd need to be open to offering that flexibility to the rest of your team where its requested. I'd personally come up with a minimum amount of days you want each individual in the office weekly or monthly depending on what suits and then give them flexibility the rest of the time. I'd say this is temporary and depends on maintaining performance levels and then monitor these how you see fit for a certain trial period. If it works well then you know it works and efficiency isn't affected- if it doesn't then you go back to your team with the evidence you collect and explain they all need to be in the office every day as a result of an overall dip in performance.

theGooHasGone · 22/04/2023 19:36

He's enjoyed three years of remote work from a different location, but now the ride is over. He signed a contract saying he's office based and chose to move away. His fault and his problem. Relocate back or find a new job.

L1ttledrummergirl · 22/04/2023 19:36

As a new manager, surely your company provided full training on the legal aspects of decisions like this to you as part of your training in the new role?

What do your companies policies say? What did HR say when you ran this past them?

The advice to stay home through covid ended over a year ago, if they have been performing in that role with no expectation of return to the office, implied terms and conditions may be considered? By changing his contract implied terms, you may find yourself in an employment tribunal.
Tread carefully and with full advice from your HR department.

FrogFairy · 22/04/2023 19:43

If you let him wfh 100% then you must be prepared for all other staff to do the same.
He “ruined” his life by choosing to move so far away.

AlwaysGinPlease · 22/04/2023 19:45

Greensleeves · 22/04/2023 18:49

Well, you kind of are ruining his life. Even if you are in the right legally (I have no idea, it depends on his contract) I think morally you are being petty and unreasonable. If he can do the job from home, he should be allowed to.

This.

FloatingRodger · 22/04/2023 19:47

catgirl1976 · 22/04/2023 18:53

You say the job can be done fully remote but then say it can’t because you can’t offer the full service if clients aren’t met in person.

If it’s the former let them WFH (ideally through a flexible working request so it’s formal and contractual) if it’s the latter then don’t but be clear about why you are refusing it in terms of impact on the service and be prepared to lose them.

Yes this - you don't seem clear as to whether it can be done fully remotely. @Daffidale 's advice seems reasonable.

Hankunamatata · 22/04/2023 19:54

GilChesterton · 22/04/2023 18:51

"regardless of where the person is?"

If they are not available at short notice then we can offer less of a service to our clients, who are more and more expecting us to return to an in person service. If someone else then has to cover it places a burden on the rest of the team (or our clients go elsewhere).

There is your answer. You client's want face to face contact or they take their business elsewhere. The job can't be done 100% remotely as not meeting the expectations of the client's of the business.

KarmaStar · 22/04/2023 20:10

He was unprofessional and reckless,bordering on idiotic,to move away from his workplace.
If he can not come in for the necessary periods of time then he needs to look for a closer job.
You are not ruining his life.
This one is on him.don't doubt yourself.

GenAndWine · 22/04/2023 20:11

How measurable are the factors you’re saying you ‘feel’ make WFH an issue?

Have you measured performance metrics since becoming the manager?

Do some of your staff prefer working on site and if so can workload be balanced accordingly?

Given the cost of recruitment, and the current job market who would be worse off if this became a hill to die on?

Are there alternatives? An office closer to the staff member’s new home location? An opportunity to come in for four days a month in a row instead of one day a week - they pay travel you pay for premier inn or similar?

mainsfed · 22/04/2023 20:11

Nope, get rid if the fucker. He’s not special.

batsandeggs · 22/04/2023 20:14

YABU if you don’t recognise that the world of work has changed. Perhaps once a month would be more reasonable? The market is good right now and there are SO many places offering wfh that he’ll probably walk into another job. It sounds like there’s scope to resolve this amicably in a way that works well for you both. Working from home is genuinely life changing for some people, and you have acknowledged that the role can be done from home.

He’s unreasonable for moving without clearing the permanent homeworking first however.

Tealsofa · 22/04/2023 20:15

GilChesterton · 22/04/2023 18:51

"regardless of where the person is?"

If they are not available at short notice then we can offer less of a service to our clients, who are more and more expecting us to return to an in person service. If someone else then has to cover it places a burden on the rest of the team (or our clients go elsewhere).

So there is a need for them to be physically present in the office to do their job properly

If they are not in the office, then others have to work harder, then you're not unreasonable

Lou197 · 22/04/2023 20:17

We are having the same issue at our work. We want staff members to return to the office for some of the week, it is just better all round. We offered they could chose which days they wanted to work in the office but then they would have to stick to those days with the odd expection - not happy campers at all. I think you have to be consistant with all. I think a lot of companies are enforcing a hybrid of office / home working if it is suitable.

Greenshake · 22/04/2023 20:18

Oysterbabe · 22/04/2023 18:53

If you allow him to call the shots you'll never get any of the staff into the office.

I agree. It’s totally reasonable to ask him to come in once a week or so.

Pandagirl10 · 22/04/2023 20:29

I am having a similar issue with my team but what I am doing is trying to flexible in that rather than (say) doing 2 days a week from the office I arrange for some people to do a full week - they have to arrange/pay accommodation etc or stay with family, if they no longer live in commutable distance.

it’s a nightmare anyway - if you have a team of people working mixed hours (some working 2 days, some 3, some 4, some 5) how do you make it ‘fair’ to all? There’s a fair bit of finger pointing and moaning!

VivX · 22/04/2023 20:42

It's bonkers that he's moved house and assumed he can wfh permanently without checking first. This is not you "ruining his life" this is him failing to think through all the consequences.

Tell him he'll need to go through the proper process and put in a flexible working pattern and you can review it formally then.

On a side note, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have some sort of hybrid arrangement. If your clients expect face-to-face and he is in a client-facing role, then it's going to be difficult for him to service clients.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 22/04/2023 20:46

I am now fully WFH. There is no real reason for me to go back to the office except some feeling from the management that it is better in some way. If they make me go back in, I will leave. Not all businesses are the same and if it is a burden on other staff, that is not ok. But if there is no good reason, I think you are BU.

bamboonights · 22/04/2023 22:13

Restinggoddess · 22/04/2023 19:16

For those of us who worked face to face during the pandemic- the fact that some people are still working from home bemuses me

If we ring a company these days - it takes ages for someone to answer
WFH seems to be an excuse not to work at the standard once held in offices where people could see what was going on
Time for a return to the office - some of us never left the workplace during covid

Spot on. It seems every call centre or customer services department has retained its shitty "sorry we can't answer the phone right now but we are experiencing a very high volume of calls" attitude and it's unacceptable. Every time you need to sort out a utility bill or such like you need to take a morning or afternoon off work. This week I need urgent advice about signage for my business. It transpires that there is no way of speaking to a human being AT ALL, and there are just pages and pages of information and a request for an application fee, for an application I simply don't understand.