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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do men become better boyfriends when they fall in love?

94 replies

FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 19:47

I’m a heterosexual woman so will position this from my own perspective but it could apply to any relationship.

If you meet a guy who has previously been a useless boyfriend. Perhaps he lied, cheated, was lazy or just didn’t commit. If he meets the love of his life, how likely is he to change and become a good boyfriend?

I think I overlook men’s flaws because I naively or perhaps arrogantly think that they just haven’t had their right / best / forever relationship yet and it will be different with me!

YABU - men don’t change. If he was a crap boyfriend to his ex, he’ll be a crap boyfriend to you too.

YANBU - of course men can change and they frequently do change when they meet the love of their life, even if it took them 40 years to do so!

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 21:56

Forfrigz · 21/04/2023 20:21

Most men aren't dicks for the fun of it, it's usually because they have an overblown ego they have to try and prop up. By default this makes them not fully capable of love in the way you might think of it.

This is interesting. So they’re being a bit of a dick because there’s actually something wrong with them. An insecurity or something. And that’s not necessarily going to go away despite the ‘love of a good woman’!

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 21:59

CheersForThatEh · 21/04/2023 20:28

I wouldnt date someone I knew had behaved that way.

Some of them might have matured, some of them might think they have, some are love vombong. But 2 of those 3 will revert to being shit because they haven't matured enough to end a relationship.

Sadly a lot of men cant actually end a relationship. They man-dump. They become shits and wait for the woman to do it.

I'm in my 30s now, i dont want to waste my time on risky men. If you want a baby and a settled relationship you can save a lot of time by just ruling those men out of your dating pool.

What is the psychology behind not being able to end a relationship? My most recent guy was like this. Tells anyone who will listen how unfulfilled he is in his current relationship but won’t actually break up with her (no kids or ties). Is it because they’re scared of being alone? Don’t want to be the bad guy? Or something else?

OP posts:
herewegoroundthebastardbush · 21/04/2023 22:01

FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 19:47

I’m a heterosexual woman so will position this from my own perspective but it could apply to any relationship.

If you meet a guy who has previously been a useless boyfriend. Perhaps he lied, cheated, was lazy or just didn’t commit. If he meets the love of his life, how likely is he to change and become a good boyfriend?

I think I overlook men’s flaws because I naively or perhaps arrogantly think that they just haven’t had their right / best / forever relationship yet and it will be different with me!

YABU - men don’t change. If he was a crap boyfriend to his ex, he’ll be a crap boyfriend to you too.

YANBU - of course men can change and they frequently do change when they meet the love of their life, even if it took them 40 years to do so!

I think what you need to be asking yourself is this:

Even if he was only shitty to women he wasn't in love with, and because he's in love with you he isn't shitty to you - do you want to have anything to do with a guy who is a shitbag to women who have done nothing wrong except not be the woman of his dreams? Really??

Fairislefandango · 21/04/2023 22:02

I think this is the situation I find myself in. For example, I meet a hedonistic playboy who has never fallen in love. We really click.

I think your problem is not whether or not hedonistic playboys can change. It's more the fact that you have a tendency to click with hedonistic playboys in the first place. Having a one-night stand with a hedonistic playboy, sure. Clicking with them to the extent that you would consider a relationship - nope.

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:04

Fairislefandango · 21/04/2023 20:43

I overlook men’s flaws because I naively or perhaps arrogantly think that they just haven’t had their right / best / forever relationship yet and it will be different with me!

Tbh this doesn't sound arrogant, it just sounds stupid or deluded. If a man has flaws that significant, why date him? When it comes to getting into a relationship, I'm a strong believer in giving the opposite of the benefit of the doubt. Most boyfriends are much worse than no boyfriend. Especially ones you already know have proved themselves to be worse than no boyfriend!

Thanks. Well for example, this most recent guy (who turned out to be a completely nightmare)… we chatted about his ex. He said that they weren’t together because she had to move abroad and she had a lot of her own problems. He said that the physical side of things didn’t really work. As he seemed to be really open, I asked him, have you ever cheated on anyone? He said yes, that this ex went away on a trip and he went on a dating app and saw someone while she was away. He was surprisingly open and honest about it.

I just thought that she wasn’t right for him, he didn’t really love her. I thought that he’s being really honest and maybe he and I will fall in love. So I carried on seeing him. He turned out to be a cheat.

Should I have run a mile when he first made that admission?

OP posts:
5128gap · 21/04/2023 22:06

Why would you even bother risking it? Isn't it better to pick someone who doesn't have these major flaws? It sounds almost like you want to see what you're capable of achieving (ie more than his previous partners managed) rather than have a relationship with a man who will treat you properly.
Of course some men change, but do you really want to invest in a project and keep your fingers crossed?

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:08

Xavier234 · 21/04/2023 20:49

I think this is a good point. I think you can't really know someone's (a partner, I suppose's) true character until your first proper argument and you've experienced hardship together. Also, and this isn't meant to be cruel but why did his previous relationships end? Because he might have 'loved' them too... until he didn't. You sound uncertain about it. Some doubts are fine in the early stages, but don't end up with someone who is shit. You deserve better than that.

Show quote history

I’m not with him. He turned out to be a cheat. He had a girlfriend the whole time he dated me and I didn’t know. I’m trying to learn from my mistakes so that I don’t do something like this ever again.

OP posts:
Xavier234 · 21/04/2023 22:08

I think we need more specifics @FeelingSad99. But you're asking people who don't know you or your relationship or your partner. So, and I don't want to sound mean, how can we know? Even if we knew you, how can we know? How can you know? It could last a lifetime or end tomorrow. I do know personally I would be more wary of a playboy post-30ish, as I think that suggests immature. I would be curious as to why his previous relationships ended. I would wonder how emotionally available he was. I would ask him what you're asking us and say if you want children etc... it's not wrong into express your needs. I would probably rule him out if by hedonistic you mean class A drug use in 30s, depending on how much. But that's just me. Those are my boundaries. What are yours?

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:09

JudgeRinderonTinder · 21/04/2023 20:55

It’s a common thing that women think highly of themselves, they’re different and more special than the rest and they’re good enough to change an arsehole when none of his ex’s made the mark - and in the end they get burnt, it never works. It’s as much to do with the woman’s ego as the man’s

Yes, I think I have done this. I was arrogant to think I might be different. Lesson learned.

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:16

I’m 45 and divorced so most of the men in my dating pool have some issues. Either they have had a broken relationship (possibly they cheated - I try to avoid these) or they haven’t had a significant relationship (possibly because they’re scared of commitment, have low self esteem, etc).

I’m currently single after being burned recently. So just wondering if any bad or slightly undesirable behaviour from the past (which most of them have unless they’re a widower) is an indication of how they will treat me in the future.

OP posts:
DelurkingAJ · 21/04/2023 22:17

@PrimarilyParented because we’re talking about a young man who’d been in a series of unserious, short relationships with no suggestion of abuse. Not staying friends in those circumstances suggests that one side or the other has got hurt. If it’s happening in every relationship then there’s a worry that the common factor is the chap you’re dating!

thispostisaboutyou · 21/04/2023 22:17

My personal opinion is that men grow up and find themselves open to something more serious...

Xavier234 · 21/04/2023 22:21

I think there is someone for you. I think you need boundaries and to stick to them. Don't try and be a fixer. Look for a secure man. So no cheats, love bombers, commitementphobes etc. Take things slow.

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:22

Xavier234 · 21/04/2023 22:21

I think there is someone for you. I think you need boundaries and to stick to them. Don't try and be a fixer. Look for a secure man. So no cheats, love bombers, commitementphobes etc. Take things slow.

Thank you. Yes, I have learned the hard way about standards, boundaries and needs. I never wanted to be a fixer… I just wanted the guys not to actively cheat on me or treat me badly.

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:26

FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:22

Thank you. Yes, I have learned the hard way about standards, boundaries and needs. I never wanted to be a fixer… I just wanted the guys not to actively cheat on me or treat me badly.

Show quote history

Because I treat people with kindness and respect, I hoped they would treat me that way in return. Nope!

OP posts:
MMMarmite · 21/04/2023 22:29

FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:04

Thanks. Well for example, this most recent guy (who turned out to be a completely nightmare)… we chatted about his ex. He said that they weren’t together because she had to move abroad and she had a lot of her own problems. He said that the physical side of things didn’t really work. As he seemed to be really open, I asked him, have you ever cheated on anyone? He said yes, that this ex went away on a trip and he went on a dating app and saw someone while she was away. He was surprisingly open and honest about it.

I just thought that she wasn’t right for him, he didn’t really love her. I thought that he’s being really honest and maybe he and I will fall in love. So I carried on seeing him. He turned out to be a cheat.

Should I have run a mile when he first made that admission?

Show quote history

Yes absolutely you should have run a mile.

I'm guessing it wasn't in the context of "here is a terrible thing I did to someone when I was much younger and stupider, I deeply regret it and here is how I have learnt from it"?

I might stop loving someone but I'm a decent person so I would never betray their trust, I would end the relationship instead. I don't need to love somebody to want to behave decently to them.

Don't you want to be with a decent person?

BranchGold · 21/04/2023 22:33

It’s interesting the language you use. Twice you said he turned into a cheat, when you knew all along he was a cheat. You didn’t expect him to do it to you, based on what?

BrightYellowDaffodil · 21/04/2023 22:34

Should I have run a mile when he first made that admission?

No. you should have run MANY miles.

I have a friend who is desperate for a loving relationship. The result is that she attracts every lying, cheating, creepy, controlling scumbag from here to Christmas - they can scent her willingness to excuse away and accept the most appalling behaviour at 50 paces.

She hopes that every single one of them will be different from the last one. That they will change from their horrific relationship history. That she will be the one to save the bad boy from himself and he will find true love with her.

It never happens, but she won’t recognise the pattern even when she’s giving evidence against them. I have to admire her (horrendously misplaced) optimism but I’m just waiting for the phone call to say one of them has killed her.

Do the Freedom Programme. Don’t be like her, please.

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:34

MMMarmite · 21/04/2023 22:29

Yes absolutely you should have run a mile.

I'm guessing it wasn't in the context of "here is a terrible thing I did to someone when I was much younger and stupider, I deeply regret it and here is how I have learnt from it"?

I might stop loving someone but I'm a decent person so I would never betray their trust, I would end the relationship instead. I don't need to love somebody to want to behave decently to them.

Don't you want to be with a decent person?

Show quote history

No he wasn’t particularly full of regret. He has said insightful things over the months like

  • I seem to have not treated women very well
  • I think I have been a selfish person
  • I think I need to think about others more
  • I’m reflecting on my behaviour
  • Maybe I’m just a terrible narcissist

I’m a decent person myself and yes I want to be with a decent person too. I just don’t know where these decent single men are!

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:37

BranchGold · 21/04/2023 22:33

It’s interesting the language you use. Twice you said he turned into a cheat, when you knew all along he was a cheat. You didn’t expect him to do it to you, based on what?

What I mean is that I found out after seeing him casually for 14 months that he was in a secret committed relationship with someone else. That’s how the story ‘turned out’. For those 14 months I thought he was a reasonably decent person. Until I found out he wasn’t. I should have been more attuned to the red flags from how he treated his ex.

OP posts:
Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:38

BrightYellowDaffodil · 21/04/2023 22:34

Should I have run a mile when he first made that admission?

No. you should have run MANY miles.

I have a friend who is desperate for a loving relationship. The result is that she attracts every lying, cheating, creepy, controlling scumbag from here to Christmas - they can scent her willingness to excuse away and accept the most appalling behaviour at 50 paces.

She hopes that every single one of them will be different from the last one. That they will change from their horrific relationship history. That she will be the one to save the bad boy from himself and he will find true love with her.

It never happens, but she won’t recognise the pattern even when she’s giving evidence against them. I have to admire her (horrendously misplaced) optimism but I’m just waiting for the phone call to say one of them has killed her.

Do the Freedom Programme. Don’t be like her, please.

I think because he so brazenly admitted cheating on his ex, in such a matter of fact way, it didn’t hit home properly. I thought he just didn’t like her very much.

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 21/04/2023 22:38

I overlook men’s flaws because I naively or perhaps arrogantly think that they just haven’t had their right / best / forever relationship yet and it will be different with me!

This isn’t arrogance as much as just wilful ignorance and seeing everything through a socially conditioned “romantic” filter.

It’s a bit worrying that you think “love” (by which you basically mean sexual attraction dressed up with romance) is some magic bullet which turns bad men good, like Cupid’s arrow. It doesn’t work like that (although a whole cultural industry has grown up to convince women it does).

Love is a conscious act of deciding that someone else is important enough that their needs are equal to yours and that there’s enough common ground to work together in a meaningful partnership. You have to have compatibility and respect and sexual attraction but there isn’t one special person who has the power to magic away a person’s faults through being the “right” one. That’s hogwash.

As a general rule a person who is arrogant or selfish or immature is not capable of real love. They are capable of thinking they need someone or wanting to control them and wanting to have sex with them to the point of obsession and doing everything in their power to “win” the person round. And they may be able to sustain a competent illusion of being “romantic” for a few months. But that’s not what love is.

If you see yourself as on a perpetual quest to be the “right” one for somebody who basically lacks the emotional tools for love you’re setting yourself up for failure.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 21/04/2023 22:40

No he wasn’t particularly full of regret. He has said insightful things over the months like

  • I seem to have not treated women very well
  • I think I have been a selfish person
  • I think I need to think about others more
  • I’m reflecting on my behaviour
  • Maybe I’m just a terrible narcissist

All that shite just means that they’ve learned the right words to say to make you think that they’ve changed and excuse away their continuing abuse.

Againstmachine · 21/04/2023 22:40

If a man's a dick he is that no matter what you ain't going to change him once a cheater always a cheater.

Aim higher .

Original poster
FeelingSad99 · 21/04/2023 22:41

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/04/2023 22:38

I overlook men’s flaws because I naively or perhaps arrogantly think that they just haven’t had their right / best / forever relationship yet and it will be different with me!

This isn’t arrogance as much as just wilful ignorance and seeing everything through a socially conditioned “romantic” filter.

It’s a bit worrying that you think “love” (by which you basically mean sexual attraction dressed up with romance) is some magic bullet which turns bad men good, like Cupid’s arrow. It doesn’t work like that (although a whole cultural industry has grown up to convince women it does).

Love is a conscious act of deciding that someone else is important enough that their needs are equal to yours and that there’s enough common ground to work together in a meaningful partnership. You have to have compatibility and respect and sexual attraction but there isn’t one special person who has the power to magic away a person’s faults through being the “right” one. That’s hogwash.

As a general rule a person who is arrogant or selfish or immature is not capable of real love. They are capable of thinking they need someone or wanting to control them and wanting to have sex with them to the point of obsession and doing everything in their power to “win” the person round. And they may be able to sustain a competent illusion of being “romantic” for a few months. But that’s not what love is.

If you see yourself as on a perpetual quest to be the “right” one for somebody who basically lacks the emotional tools for love you’re setting yourself up for failure.

You’re right. This guy wasn’t capable of love. The woman he’s in a relationship with now isn’t getting that kind of love from him. He seems to take what he needs from her (emotional intimacy, cinema partner, sex) but he’s very unkind about her.

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