To think we are becoming a much poorer country?

[Felixss]

I keep seeing on threads increase taxes on the rich , increase salaries, increase nhs spending and increase benefits. People are acting like we are still hugely wealthy and everyone wants to come over. Poland is predicted to overtake us economically. I can earn twice my salary abroad and I'm thinking of leaving. Where is the money going to come from with a shrinking work force and low investment in new technology? AIBU to think the UK is hugely declining ?

Pensions do not come from a magic pot.

They are paid by YOUR contributions over 35-40 years in the abstract sense.

So in Spain & France for example:

They had to pay much higher contributions (12%) over 40 years to get theie State Pension.

In the UK, the same aged people paid in much lower contributions (6%) over 35-40 years.

The difference (accumulation over 35-40 years) over time is about 3X

Which is PRECISELY why the UKs state pension is lower vs Spain and France.

I am so incredibly tired of correcting you folks. You seem incapable of learning basic things.

So onve again for the cheap seats:

Your UK State Pension is low because you NEVER FUNDED it properly over your working lifetimes. You did this by paying little NI & tax.

And now you are asking the working population to subsidise this difference via the triple lock over the last 12 years.

Thats why the country is BROKE!

I'm guessing you're not well informed enough to realise that current pensioners hold more wealth than any other age group in society today?

Anyone of pension age right now who hasn't taken advantage of the numerous and varied opportunities they've had throughout their adult life to make themselves very financially comfortable have only themselves to blame, they must have been extremely feckless and irresponsible to have not provided themselves with a good level of financial security.

Your UK State Pension is low because you NEVER FUNDED it properly over your working lifetimes. You did this by paying little NI & tax.

We didn’t fund it. We funded our parents’ and grandparents’ pensions. We paid the tax and NI the various governments of our lifetimes decreed, it’s hardly our fault if they were fiscally incompetent.

Added to which successive governments of both colours have seen the old age bulge coming down the line for over 50 years and failed to plan for it. Berate them, they were happy enough to take our money for the 40 odd years it was flowing in.

The unfortunate reality is that they don't care.

Thats why the NHS strikes are so important

Its the only leverage we have against the pensioners and their extreme entitlement.

Its a mistake to feel sympathy for them (simply because they are old) because they certainly don't for you.

Additionally, they had 40 years to save up for a pension but chose not to do so (bought houses instead). Personal responsibility matters here because they showed none. Thats why nobody should be cutting them any slack. They certainly don't to the younger folks.

Its self-evident now that you lack the basic education required ro even begin to discuss this topic.

Fell for the trap of wasting energy explaining things to a retired person again.

I’m guessing you’re not sufficiently well informed to understand that generational wealth is not the same as individual wealth. Some of today’s pensioners had low paying jobs for the entirety of their working lives. Many had no opportunity to pay into occupational pension schemes, even if they could afford it. You can’t save money you never had - how much do you think care workers, shop assistants and labourers earned?

Resorting to insults again. You never, ever address anyone else’s points, do you? This is such a waste of time.

I know plenty of pensioners who had low skilled/unskilled jobs that are indeed now very low paid but when they were working the pay was comparatively much higher, allowing them a comfortable standard of living, the opportunity to buy cheap housing and pay into hugely unsustainable and overly generous occupational pension schemes and oftencase retire early... there's no excuse for the feckless and irresponsible ones that didn't take advantage of these opportunities to secure their financial future which were handed to them on a plate.

Honestly @Blossomtoes how do you think we can afford everything the country needs then? It's all very well saying you paid what was decreed. If it wasn't enough, then it wasn't enough. Pensions aren't the only thing that needs funding. What about education? Policing? The NHS? Childcare? Social care? What about the people who are working themselves? A lot of them can't afford to live and eat.

It's all very well saying you paid what was decreed. If it wasn't enough, then it wasn't enough.

It was enough. It paid for two previous generations’ pensions. It paid for two generations’ education - probably including yours - the NHS was fully functional until 2010. We’re paying for our own social care, people’s houses are (quite rightly) being sold to pay their care home fees. Many of us are paying for our own healthcare.

Stop looking in the wrong place. We have a government that’s mismanaging our money - yours and mine - spending it on insane immigration policies, lining its own pockets. Vote for something better instead of wasting your time berating a group of people who are as powerless as you.

The "triple lock" is simply legislation.

Legislation of "how" State Pensions can be uprated can be changed. And there is absolutely nothing the pensioners can do about this legally speaking.

Public sector pensions are another matter because once "earned" via your contributions every year (you then use a formula to get the final weighted annuity), it is basically impossible to take them away legally-speaking.

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your selfish attitude. It's true that the government are squirrelling money away left right and centre. But honestly that's what I see your generation doing as well.
And in case you're wondering I'm not a youngster myself. I just care about them. I'm later Gen X / early millennial so doing pretty good in comparison to people 5 or 10 years younger. But it's not all about me

Genuinely @Rainyrunway, what’s selfish about my attitude? I pay my taxes and have done since I was 18, I pay my way, I pay for my own healthcare, we’ve saved our money for unforeseen emergencies, we help our adult kids out financially. I vote for governments that prioritise spending on education, health and lifting children out of poverty What part of that is selfish?

My dm has just started to collect her basic pension this year. Having been unable to work for years due to caring for a family member (or giving the government fund residential care for 30 years), for the princely sum of £70 a week, she's had a pay rise. Of course she can no longer claim carers allowance despite still doing the caring.

How do you think she should have paid more into a private pension?

The pension is there so that people don't starve and end up living on the streets when they are elderly and I sure as hell don't resent this. I do resent the billionaires with off-shore accounts, restructuring their income to avoid paying a fair amount of tax in comparison to the rest of the population.

I also don't resent pensions. And presumably your DM would be eligible for top ups if £70 a week is her only income. I completely support that.

@Blossomtoes it's selfish because you believe that pensioners should come first.and you've argued repeatedly that they shouldn't have to pay NIC. Even though they are the wealthiest group. The ones who are in poverty should ABSOLUTELY get help. Same as younger people who are in poverty. And as I've said many times I agree that everyone over retirement age should get a basic income from the state. But it really should be basic, unless they're actually in need. The money is needed elsewhere.

Can I point out, pensioners overwhelmingly vote Tory and voted for Brexit.

I don’t think pensioners should come first and I’ve never said that. In fact everything I’ve said about government priorities is the opposite of that.

I don’t think they should pay NI unless the link between NI contributions and pension eligibility is broken. If it’s rolled up into income tax a new way of determining pension eligibility would have to be found. But bear in mind that if that happened the basic rate of income tax would rise to at least 32% and the optics of that would be political and electoral suicide.

You can point that out by all means. Equally I can point out that many of today’s pensioners were below pension age in 2016 and in 2019. Perhaps the voting pattern of that demographic will be different in 2025, it will be interesting to see.

That IS the basic rate of income tax though already for everyone except pensioners. So they'd just need to think of a way to word it. I'm sure they could come up with a 3 word slogan.
And pension eligibility, could be universal basic income. Nothing more than the minimum unless means tested and shown to need it.
The no need to show anything.

But we don’t have universal basic income. No political party would propose it either. How ever much you continue to insist otherwise basic rate income tax is 20% - I know because I pay it.

Its downright amusing how uneducated you are about public finances and the mental gymnastics you do about reaching the conclusion that "pensioners cannot pay more tax".

Going to be highly satisfying to watch the entire country turn on you folks.

I realise you folks don't have a clue about the real world, but your behavior has become so obviously dysfunctional to society over the last 10 years that even folks that used to support you are completely disgusted by your behavior.

Remember, Greek pensioners were under the same illusions you folks are.

When a country is broke, those pensions will be cut. Its that simple really irrespective of your pie in the sky politics.

It’s downright amusing how you have literally no debating weapon in your arsenal except sneering and insult. You have absolutely no interest in any kind of meaningful discussion. You’re a waste of pixels.

I give you my very expensive time on here to educate you.

And you have consistently shown zero ability to learn.

That takes some doing given this is all basic finance.

So no, now you get nothing. I don't have the time or inclination to teach basic stuff to you.

Google "Duning-Kruger"

Thats you right now.

How kind. I don’t need to Google Duning-Kruger. You epitomise it.