To think we are becoming a much poorer country?

[Felixss]

I keep seeing on threads increase taxes on the rich , increase salaries, increase nhs spending and increase benefits. People are acting like we are still hugely wealthy and everyone wants to come over. Poland is predicted to overtake us economically. I can earn twice my salary abroad and I'm thinking of leaving. Where is the money going to come from with a shrinking work force and low investment in new technology? AIBU to think the UK is hugely declining ?

@Blossomtoes

"Those figures are five years out of date."

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Feel free to provide more up to date figures.

Saw on Twitter:

”Great graphic by @jburnmurdoch. In other words, Britain is a poor country, with 1 moderately wealthy region”.

It’s wealth not income where the huge disparity lies.

It would be really interesting to see how we ranked when we had a Labour government in charge. Although I don't think income per person is a particularly good measure and can cover up a lot of poverty, the real grinding poverty you get in the UK. IMO housing is a huge factor, we need mass, affordable, good quality public housing, that would solve an awful lot of problems.

@Soapnutty

"It’s wealth not income where the huge disparity lies."

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I completely agree which is why increases in wealth tax makes more sense than increases in income tax.

@Kendodd

"IMO housing is a huge factor, we need mass, affordable, good quality public housing, that would solve an awful lot of problems."

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I also completely agree. One thing I noticed about Germany is that because of the lower cost of housing people had more money to spend on things like say restaurants or cars or even health care insurance or private pensions. All of which put money back into the economy or reduce the burden on the state rather than being unproductively locked up in bricks and mortar.

However anyone who is fortunate enough to own their own home will often object to the building of new homes as it may spoil their view / place additional burden on existing infrastructure etc. Conveniently forgetting that their home when constructed did exactly the same thing.

This. And the cost of new houses in the UK is very high.

The difference in Germany is that renting is socially acceptable and regulated. The Germans don’t fetishise home ownership in the way the UK does.

I don't understand your logic. If a property costs more money to buy then the landlord needs to charge more in rent otherwise they would not be able to afford the mortgage or would make such a low return that wouldn't make it worthwhile.

As for the rent controls in Germany they generally only relate to how much rent can be increased per year. Where actual rent caps were in place such as in Berlin then these have been ruled illegal.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/germany-highest-court-rules-berlin-rent-cap-illegal

@Blossomtoes

There really isn't that much difference in home ownership between Germany and the UK:

It is of course not true that people pay the same tax on their earnings that they do on pensions. Pensions and unearned income is not subject to NI.

This.

NI and income tax are different things. That’s why they have different names and are levied at different rates. 🤷‍♀️

They're really not different things though. NI is just another income tax. The only difference is that pensioners don't pay it!

They are different things. One of the main differences is that NI contributions determine pension eligibility. You have to have a minimum of 35 years NI contributions to qualify for a state pension. 35 years income tax payments doesn’t entitle you to a pension at all.

Totally incorrect.

Tax and NI all go into the same pot.

NI payments being use for pension eligibilty is completely irrelevant.

Really? Do explain why - apart from the “same pot” argument. On that basis all taxes are the same.

Not the point but I hope apprenticeships will be more widely available and appreciated. They where snubbed when I was looking at my future at 18. Now I'm telling my kids they may very well be one of the best ways into a good job and a career

Well yeah all taxes ARE the same - except council tax which is local.

How are all taxes the same? Income tax and NI are compulsory. VAT isn’t because it’s levied on purchases. Corporation tax is levied on businesses. IHT is determined by wealth and paid only by the richest 7% of households. Stamp duty is paid only when you buy a house. In what world are they the same?

They're the same in that they all go into the same pot. There is no logical reason that I can see that pensioners should also pay NI which is why it should be amalgamated into one tax on earnings. Obviously if you don't earn enough to pay tax you still won't but if you do why should you not pay it just because you're older? It also gives people the impression that it's somehow ringfenced for their own pension which is why (I think) a lot of pensioners think "they paid in all their lives" so pensions aren't the same as other benefits.

Sorry I obviously meant I can see no reason why pensioners should not pay NI.

The reason people say they’ve paid in all their lives is because of the number of qualifying years needed for a state pension. It’s factually correct. Mine has cost me 40+ years contributions so there’s no fairness to it. If the two are rolled up together, how do you suggest we determine eligibility for state pension? And don’t say means test it.

NI is not a hypothecated tax.

If it was a hypothecated tax to pay only the State Pension it would only be used to pay that.

As it is now, NI is exactly like income tax. Just another tax on income. All goes into the same pot of general revenues.

There are many more leaving. I meet doctors in their first two years after qualifying all the time - most say that they don't know anyone planning to stay more than a few years at most. Their student loans are £100K + and increasing, because the interest is more than the amount paid off. Working conditions are rubbish. They see no reason to stay.