To think that sex and gender are the same thing?

[StNinian]

I don't buy into the distinction many people make between the two terms nowadays. "Gender" was never a word used to describe how one feels/identifies behaves until recently. It has long been synonymous with "sex". Just curious to see if anyone else agrees with me.

I am willing to admit 99% of what I hear and see these days I think is bollocks but yeah it's different

This.

This brainwashing has got us to the stage where some people have acquired the right to demand we reject the evidence of our eyes and our ears.

Can't we just keep it simple and have male and female? A person or a thing (in many languages) are either male or female. Their gender is male or female.

Dressing differently does not affect you being male or female!!

How can they be the same thing when people can apparently have a male body but a female gender?

You cannot - you are either male OR female! You are masculine OR feminine!

You cannot be both... that's the issue

Your body doesn't determine your gender but it determines your sex.

A person or a thing (in many languages) are either male or female.

How can a "thing" be male or female if it doesn't have a biological sex?

Your body doesn't determine your gender but it determines your sex.

But they are the same thing

Male or female! Masculine or feminine!

Masculine and feminine isn't the same as male and female. Masculine means you have characteristics that are commonly seen in males. It doesn't mean you are male. A lot of women look masculine. It doesn't make them male.

What I think l, is this:

Sex = your biology.

Gender = a concept that has come into being because some people do not conform to societal expectations of their sex, to the extent that they feel that they feel that they do not belong in their own bodies. They have a fundamental need to resolve the dissonance about themselves and so choose to adopt the social roles, characteristics and sometimes bodies of the other sex.

Gender began as a euphemism for sex, but the meaning has now started to mean “the sex we feel we would be happiest living as”. 99% of the population, it is the same thing as sex, but for a small proportion it is not.

I am quite sure that toxic masculinity, and equally toxic portrayals of what it means to be a woman (looking at you, Kim Kardashian, and your fellow lifestyle ‘influencers’), have a lot to answer for.

How can a "thing" be male or female if it doesn't have a biological sex?

Because in German it is Die Katze so a cat is feminine in German. A table is masculine

There are many countries that don't use sex to describe male and female - they use gender. Some or all of these countries aren't trans-aware or trans-friendly so when they say gender, they mean biological reality. Sex means intercourse.

This gender/sex war has come about because of the trans movement and all the 700 personalities and sexual orientations genders No one here really cared before if you used gender or sex.

Gender is a social construct, go have a look at baby clothes and the toys at the toy store and it's very obvious

Feminine doesn't mean female. Someone has just decided that cats have something that makes them think of females and therefore made "cat" feminine. But we know cats can be male or female.

Like "nurse". Because that was traditionally a role for women, the word nurse is seen as feminine. So when men started to do that job they got "male nurse" and "charge nurse" instead of sister. It's all based on stereotypes.

There are many countries that don't use sex to describe male and female - they use gender. Some or all of these countries aren't trans-aware or trans-friendly so when they say gender, they mean biological reality. Sex means intercourse.

Exactly.

In Germany there is only the word gender - this refers to whether someone or something is male or female. Simple.

The word sex literally only describes intercourse

So I do not understand this whole issue debate

What about other language though, where it could be the opposite.
Just because 'cat' is a feminine word in German doesn't mean cats are all female.
Or that tables are actually male.

Or are English tables gender neutral because we don't have masculine/feminine nouns?

Disclaimer: I was always shit at language.

I don’t know because terminology is now being made up on twitter and TikTok 😂

Are there 72 sexes? And only two genders?

In French it's the other way around. A cat is masculine and a table is feminine.

In English all common nouns are gender neutral.

The French also don't use the words "male" and "femelle" to refer to biological sex in humans (only other animals). I had my children in France and in the medical notes my son is described as a child of the masculine sex and my daughter is a child of the feminine sex. And absolutely nothing is gender neutral (which is why "non binary people" are struggling to be taken seriously).

Just because 'cat' is a feminine word in German doesn't mean cats are all female.
Or that tables are actually male

No of course not

But the word 'gender' refers to whether a word or a person is male or female.

Any official forms and your passport will contain your gender - male or female

What confuses me is that the people who argue that sex and gender are different, actually act as though it is the same thing.

The following statement exemplifies what somebody might say, who truly believe that sex and gender are different:

”I am a man named Simon. My gender expression is female and I like to wear dresses and lipstick. I had surgery to give myself boobs because I like the way it looks. Please call me Simmy.”

I don’t think anyone (aside from bullies) would have a problem with this, at least philosophically.

It’s when people who say that sex is not gender say
“I have a penis but I a woman and I want this legally recognised” that things get sticky.

Right ok... in German.

But the vast majority of us on here are (I assume) not German. And therefore it's not really relevant what words Germans use, is it?

As I understand it "Gender" (in England at least) was used as a polite word for sex. And to stop twats like my brother writing "yes please" on forms.

But the actual word "sex" refers to biology and "gender" is some kind of made up thing identity which no one can actually explain. I don't think I have one.

I am a man named Simon. My gender expression is female and I like to wear dresses and lipstick

He's a man. His gender is male. Simple.

Regardless of how he 'expresses' himself

Not sure I explained that very well, but basically I mean that people who feel that their sense of their own gender means they ARE a woman (or a man) are actually saying therefore that gender and sex are the same thing. And they are saying gender should determine sex.
It’s all terribly confusing.

I presume that is the words they are not actually calling those items male or female?

Mind you ships and cars are traditionally female?

Seperate to this can anyone explain gender without using words like make-up, toy cars, dolls, climbing, dresses etc.

Yes I am well aware males and females do a mix of this it is the cliche I am asking

Thanks. I couldn't remember what way round they were in French. Google suggested different words for male and female cats, which I don't remember learning at school!

That's interesting about how babies sex is recorded though.

I guess that in English, "male" is the word for "of the masculine sex" and female for "of the feminine sex" despite the fact that masculine and feminine are (imo) based largely on stereotypes. (In English at least. French obviously has different meanings)

Because in German it is Die Katze so a cat is feminine in German.

Except when it's der Kater!