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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can we muzzle all dogs in public yet (warning, graphic image of mauled hand)

478 replies

lfYouLikePinaCoIadas · 18/04/2023 22:25

“Whilst out walking a route that Tom has been on numerous times, he was the victim of an unprovoked attack by an unleashed dog. The dog attacked Tom multiple times as he tried to protect his puppy from being mauled by the dog and was left with horrific injuries. What is more horrifying, however, is that the owners of the dog didn’t try to help and fled the scene leaving Tom bleeding from his artery on his wrist.

Wife Katy recalls the moment that she opened the door to find her husband standing there after the attack: ‘‘Tom managed to get home where I had to tourniquet, to try to stem the bleeding, while waiting for 999. He lost several litres of blood in the short time until the ambulance arrived. Our two children were at home at the time and were woken up by the commotion. My 7-year-old was terrified and thought that her dad was doing to die from the blood loss.’’

https://www.familiesonline.co.uk/news/dad-of-2-viciously-mauled-by-dog-trying-to-protect-family-puppy

Imagine it had been a child’s face, or neck, or little body, instead of an adult’s hand.

Absolutely sick of nothing being done to protect the public.

YABU - dogs are man’s best friend
YANBU - something needs to be done

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Maverickess · 20/04/2023 14:26

24KaratCucumber · 20/04/2023 14:03

Totally reasonable response to people that don't like dogs.

Completely rational and normal.

Not to mention completely wrong...... I have two dogs so I do actually like them. And my main issue is uncontrolled dogs coming at mine and the owners either don't or can't call them away, and some also fail to recognise aggressive behaviour from their own dog when approaching, leading to the possibility of a fight. If your dog doesn't do that then what's the issue with what I've said?

I was saying that if a dog is under control and reliably ignores others, then there's no reason to put it on a lead because the objective is still achieved - the dog doesn't bother anyone else or cause any issues - in answer to people saying all dogs should be on a lead everywhere, all the time. Makes no difference if the dog is on or off the lead if it doesn't run up to you, there isn't an issue.

Yet I'm another poster you've decided to have a go at? You're on all these threads about dogs throwing around suggestions of anxiety and MH issues when people don't want to be jumped at, pawed at, have food nicked or have their own dogs accosted, but honestly you're coming across like you could start a fight in an empty room because you're just going at anyone that posts anything.

vivainsomnia · 20/04/2023 15:52

There's billions of knives and only 282 were used for murder so why bother restricting their sale etc, everyone should be able to wander the streets with a carving knife... You'd think that pretty silly though..
That's exactly the point. Do you think anyone carrying any sort of knife, to a barbecue or a picnic should have licence and a double lock just in case you suddenly decided to go and murder someone because there are a few who uses them to do so?

Actually, make it forks too because I'm sure there are up to 9000 people going to A&E to A&E with forks injuries so let's make sure everyone having a nice picnic in the park put all forks in a lock container and never use them if there are people around you just in case they have an accident with a fork.

The dog thing is a complete overreaction. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful but no, danger doesn't lurk at any corner of local parks.

hiredandsqueak · 20/04/2023 16:09

My old dog walks off lead she will never be muzzled. She bothers nobody she's not interested in the majority of dogs or anyone outside of her family. She's old now so doesn't stray far from my side but she has reliable recall anyway. There would be no benefit to anyone if she was forced to be on a lead and muzzled but it would impact her happiness considerably. Ive lost count of the number of people, both adults and children though who have stroked her, tried to pick her up without asking first. Not a problem as she wouldn't hurt anybody but only I know that at the time.

24KaratCucumber · 20/04/2023 16:10

That's exactly the point. Do you think anyone carrying any sort of knife, to a barbecue or a picnic should have licence and a double lock just in case you suddenly decided to go and murder someone because there are a few who uses them to do so?

The UK has knife laws that say, unless you have a very very good reason to have a bladed article in public, you are breaking the law. It is at an officer's discretion whether your reason is good enough. Effectively meaning that neither tom dick nor Harry can carry a knife in the UK.
A professional who needs knives for a job, like a chef or a professional carpet fitter etc would have good reason,
Terry from No18 who just likes Cleavers.. no, he'd be breaking the law.

So your 'anyone carrying any sort of knife to a barbecue or picnic' is breaking the law and could be arrested.

Neededanewuserhandle · 20/04/2023 16:18

Feelinadequate23 · 20/04/2023 13:50

all the “irresponsible people won’t comply anyway” responses are just like the arguments against gun control in the US. No! Take away most dogs and dog attacks will decrease!

also it’s not just violent men with violent breed dogs that do damage. My idiot ditsy sister who doesn’t have a violent bone or bad intention in her body has a completely out of control “loveable” golden retriever, who is not at all aggressive, but is huge and totally out of control due to lack of training. The dog knocked over an elderly lady and hurt her quite badly, and my sister just looked on dumbly saying “she’s just energetic, she didn’t mean it!” with zero idea it was her fault!

Controls such as licenses and mandatory training would weed out the many idiotic owners who just don’t think ownership through or don’t understand what’s needed and cause many lower level, unreported issues and attacks which cause the majority of the problems.

I'd love to know how you think you're going to magic all the dogs (and guns in the USA) away from the refusniks. When the local hardo drug dealers ignore the new licence requirements, you expect the Police to go and take their dogs away? They can't even stop them dealing drugs. I mean I wish it wasn't so, but I think you are being wholly unrealistic about the practicalities of enforcement.

Feelinadequate23 · 20/04/2023 16:23

@Neededanewuserhandle it May well be impossible to enforce with drug dealers but the point is many of the incidents happen because of normal, law abiding people being crap dog owners. And a law would work against all of those people. We shouldn’t avoid bringing in a law because a few hardened criminals won’t comply. Murderers still murder but we don’t remove the law!

Neededanewuserhandle · 20/04/2023 16:37

But we should avoid bringing in pointless laws to deal with a tiny minority of miscreants. You were talking about reducing the numbers of dogs/guns - what are you going to do with all the surplus?

slowquickstep · 20/04/2023 17:27

I see there has been yet another dog attack, 2 women in Liverpool attacked by 2 Staffies. Both in hospital. No doubt the Staffies were " lovely and gentle"

Boomboom22 · 20/04/2023 17:51

Once again @vivainsomnia showing that they don't understand the difference between digs and humans. Just because more humans attack humans doesn't mean dogs should be the same. Dogs are not humans. We can put down or ban or stop breeding dogs. Unfortunately we can't do that with any humans even rapists or serial killers.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/04/2023 17:58

HyacinthBookay · Today 07:23
Perhaps we should send all the dogs to Rwanda”

The great British public would never tolerate that.
Shame they don’t GAF about other humans.

NewMarmalade · 20/04/2023 18:05

Boomboom22 · 20/04/2023 17:51

Once again @vivainsomnia showing that they don't understand the difference between digs and humans. Just because more humans attack humans doesn't mean dogs should be the same. Dogs are not humans. We can put down or ban or stop breeding dogs. Unfortunately we can't do that with any humans even rapists or serial killers.

‘Dogs are not humans’

Key point that some struggle with.

Some folk don’t get on with people though (wonder why!) so turn to animals for company I think.

DaSilvaP · 22/04/2023 00:15

VincentVaguer · 19/04/2023 10:24

Most dogs don't hurt people. So many wound up hysterics on this thread.

So may delusional people on this thread, who can't grasp that a dog is domesticated wolf, more or less domesticated, not some cute toy that happen to be able to walk on its own..

LimitIsUp · 22/04/2023 00:31

What a fatuous comment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticationoffthedog - from that article
"The genetic divergence between the dog's ancestor and modern wolves occurred between 40,000 and 30,000 years ago, just before or during the Last Glacial Maximum"

40,000 years ago - i.e. so long ago it's practically irrelevant

gillefc82 · 22/04/2023 02:41

I own 2 dogs. Both large breeds. Both breeds that, if not properly trained, raised, socialised etc could do serious damage to other dogs, wildlife, kids or adults.

However, my job as a responsible dog owner is to do everything to ensure my dogs know how to behave both inside and outside the house. Stanley, a Kangal, is only 14 months old, so still very much a bouncy puppy. He is always on a lead when outside (unless in a secure dog field) as he does not yet have a fully reliable recall and, whilst WE know he is just a big, soft, lollopy giant pup who wants to say hi and play, I’m sure anyone he went running towards on the street/in a park would probably sh@t themselves, as THEY wouldn’t know that!

Fiona is 7 and is a Belgian Malinois- a breed used by police and military for serious roles. They are amazing dogs (lots of them are now being used across Africa to protect Rhino and other wildlife from poachers) but are not a typical “pet” breed and require lots of physical, but more importantly mental exercise/stimulation. Fiona’s recall is excellent, and whilst she can walk off lead to heel very nicely, she is also walked on a lead if outside on the street for her safety as there’s always the chance something could startle her and I would be devastated if she darted into the road in front of a car.

A lot of time, effort and perseverance goes into training my dogs and it’s not work that ever stops, as training is as much about the humans (me, DH and all my family and friends who interact with my 2) as it is about training the dogs themselves. Like humans, they can both sometimes have their off days; they may be feeling especially stubborn or (particularly Stanley!) decide they have developed teenager style selective hearing 🙄 But with consistent correction, reinforcement and repetition, my dogs are happy, healthy and fulfilled and do not present a threat/danger.

I agree with PP that the minority of bad, irresponsible and neglectful owners will continue to flout any rules and fail to raise their dogs correctly and they would be the ones not muzzling their dogs even if laws were introduced, whilst the rest of us would comply.

It would be awful to have to muzzle and put on a lead my dogs every time they were outside just because of a small majority. I know for mine, if they were unable to have that off lead exercise, I would be genuinely concerned how fulfilled and happy their lives would be.

I’d rather the government overhaul the DDA and Breed Specific Legislation currently in place which is woefully inadequate and unfairly penalises certain breeds and dogs that are “types” based a set criteria, impose proper controls on irresponsible backyard breeders and reintroduce a dog licence or something similar that mandates dog owners to demonstrate a minimum level of care and competency as part of owning a dog. Who knows, if we do this we may actually find that people finally become worthy of having the privilege of having dogs in their lives?

VincentVaguer · 22/04/2023 07:29

DaSilvaP · 22/04/2023 00:15

So may delusional people on this thread, who can't grasp that a dog is domesticated wolf, more or less domesticated, not some cute toy that happen to be able to walk on its own..

A WOLF 😅 get over yourself

SinnerBoy · 22/04/2023 07:32

They are indeed wolves, they can still breed with them and show the same behavioural traits.

VincentVaguer · 22/04/2023 07:35

They are domesticated and have been for many hundreds of thousands of years. You are just clutching at straws here. Negative breed traits like deliberate aggression has usually been caused by humans.

SinnerBoy · 22/04/2023 07:37

40 thousand years. Zoologists say that they are wolves, what would they know?

VincentVaguer · 22/04/2023 07:38

OK they are wolves. Wolves that don't hurt people in the main.

SinnerBoy · 22/04/2023 07:40

Because we train them to behave nicely around humans, but the core traits are there, lurking beneath the surface. They're social pack hunters and if treated properly, will take their cues from their leader - the owner.

VincentVaguer · 22/04/2023 07:42

SinnerBoy · 22/04/2023 07:40

Because we train them to behave nicely around humans, but the core traits are there, lurking beneath the surface. They're social pack hunters and if treated properly, will take their cues from their leader - the owner.

Oh fgs.

Ersorrywhatnow · 22/04/2023 07:48

The idea that my little cuddly terrier is a wolf, is hilarious!

Ersorrywhatnow · 22/04/2023 07:49

‘properly, will take their cues from their leader - the owner.’

ooh, lucky I’m not out all night hunting cats then…

Crocodilekneecaps · 22/04/2023 07:50

My Goldie just brought me her giraffe teddy, she’s looking particularly wolf like this morning

nomoredriving · 22/04/2023 07:52

Crocodilekneecaps · 22/04/2023 07:50

My Goldie just brought me her giraffe teddy, she’s looking particularly wolf like this morning

One of the first signs of wolf like tendencies, hunting wild animals....

Be careful....