Cleaner left 40 minutes early because I wasn't home

[Scarletthoo2]

Our cleaner only did 1 hour and 20 minutes when I pay her for 2 hours. She doesn't realise I have a ring doorbell and majority of the time I'm working from home so I know when she arrives and leaves. However, I'm away for work and she is aware of that. I caught her arriving at 11:33 and leaving at 12:53. I'm obviously really pissed off about it. Do I mention it to her and let her know I can see her or just send her half of the money? She left 40 minutes early.

Lmfao! Yes, OP is absolutely entitled to expect the two hours she agreed to pay for. That’s the point.

You’d think someone in danger of being impoverished would make sure to do the job they’re being paid for, not leave early then lie when asked about it. Any negative repercussions as a result of her own actions are her responsibility, not OP’s.

Maybe cleaners should price per job

Many do now, to negate the idea that they’re being employed as a household servant who can be asked to do any number of chores as long as it’s within the time paid.

If I take on a new customer I’ll book a longer clean to get the house up to a standard and then give an estimated time for weekly cleans to maintain it..
with some emphasis on the fact that the although the time required to do the set task may fluctuate, I will charge the same.

Ive learnt to be very clear about expectations.

Any extras requested are charged as extras. I’m not throwing in window cleaning for free just because I’ve worked exceptionally hard and fast to complete an agreed job.

I did all the internal and external kitchen windows once as an extra to impress my first ever customer years ago. She came home and said “that was pointless, my window cleaners are booked for this afternoon” lesson learned!

Some customers wouldn’t be happy if you emptied and rearranged a cupboard for example. I’ve found “initiative” can bite you in the arse sometimes, it’s far better to agree a set clean.

Yes you’re right @daisymoonlightI was pointing out that you can’t make a direct comparison to a Boss/employee set up and if you do (as a pp did above) then you’d apply the same contractual obligations of an employee/employer agreement. I was pointing out the flaws in comparing a job like this to a 9-5 office role

Gotcha, yeah I agree, comparisons to boss/employee arent really appropriate.

I think whats different in this case is, it involves being in my home where all my stuff is and to me, that requires a much higher level of trust than say, someone just washing my car for example. When you give your house keys to someone its very important you feel comfortable they are trustworthy and lying doesnt really help to convince me of that. IF she had said "oh yeah, I did leave early that day- everything was done, happy to chat about this issue when I see you next" it wouldnt bother me so much. But she lied. Twice. I dont feel comfortable with someone having my house key who does that, hence maybe my more hardline stance as you say.

I do see that @daisymoonlight and plenty of posters agree with you.

I don’t think I’d assume “bunking off” with some lame excuse would automatically mean a person is a thief or so lacking in morals they who can’t be trusted in a person’s home.

All hypothetical really, I’ve never hired a cleaner.

There does seem to be an usually high level of suspicion around cleaners in particular on here. An assumption that we all take the piss given half the chance, don’t pay tax and would rob you if we could.

I suppose I’m a bit defensive being a cleaner myself 😂

What's the policy in her charging about completed work or parts of an hour? In my last hourly paid job if I'd completed 45 mins I got paid for an hour. In my current one I have to complete the tasks set and once those are done I can go.

Yeah I certainly don’t think that of all cleaners!

But my point is- if you are self employed and lying to your clients, you can’t really then be shocked that they let you go. Maybe not all people would but you have to be aware that most people don’t like that. It’s just not a good or professional way to run a self employed business, esp one which involves a level of trust with someone else’s belongings.

Fair point. Hopefully she’s kicking herself and has learned a lesson in customer relations.

Ive learnt over the years to make all expectations really clear from the start.

That doesn’t mean you can just leave a job early and not fulfil what you agreed to do, which in this case is two hours work.

It’s also not possible to do two hours’ work in less time. If you do “two hours’ work” in one and a half hours. It was one and and half hours work.

No, if it’s a contract that states the rate is hourly, then it’s hourly. If the cleaner doesn’t have a set list of duties for which they are paid, then they have no right to leave early and expect to be paid for 40 minutes after they left !! And the analogy doesn’t work - it’s not about arriving late and making your excuses. It’s about leaving before your contracted hours are up, and expecting to still be paid. If you were in an office with a contract that stated hourly pay, then you are expected to work those hours. I was an office manager and if one of my staff finished their work I would take the view that if they had got through the work and it was done properly, then they didn’t have enough to do. Same thing. No matter how much people want it to be the case that the cleaner was right, it’s simply not acceptable to leave before your contracted hours, expect to be paid for time you haven’t worked and then lie your way out of it when confronted.

Ok look I was just pointing out that a self employed person you’ve hired to work in your home is a little different to an employed 9-5 role working under a manager.

If you want to set the hours you work then go self employed. I’ve had plenty of people snort at the hours I work and how much I charge p/h and laugh bitterly that they’re in the wrong job. They wish they could earn 70 quid for 4 hirs work. Well maybe you are?

Its entirely possible to complete the same clean in a shorter time than you did the last time; there are many variables- it’s a manual job.

Its going off on a tangent a bit because most posters have agreed that the cleaner shouldn’t have lied about staying the full 2 hours.

The fact remains that all jobs in your home are quoted factoring in estimated labour time at a charge of X per hour or X per day. I’m certainly not timing myself to the minute, neither are my customers.

In the unlikely event I finish early because there are less toys to pick up before hoovering for example, I’m not going to start throwing in free chores such as cleaning out cupboards or washing windows.
Ive done that in the past and customers start expecting extras every time- it over complicates things.

I agree that trust needs to be built up. The relationship between client and cleaner has to be carefully developed overtime, so yes dishonesty isn’t recommended but I’ve also learnt that I have to manage customer’s expectations and make it clear what they are paying for.

All well and good but the cleaner shaved 33% off her working time. Not 5, 10 or 15% or anything else remotely understandable.

Sometimes my cleaner takes less than the two hours I pay him for, and sometimes it takes him more. So I’m not that bothered when mine is done in an hour and a half after I’ve been away, because I know there are plenty of times when he’s done and extra 10/15 minutes here and there. But, I trust him and he does a cracking job. If you don’t trust your cleaner then I understand why it’d bother you, and I’d do something about it.

Yes agreed. I’ve never finished a job quoted for 2 hours that quickly, in fact 99% of the time I go over time by 10miins or so.

I still think it could have been managed with a warning about bunking off, if this woman has proven to be hard working and reliable up until now.
Probably as a manager yourself you’d give a good employee a second chance if you found they’d lied and pulled a sickie or slipped off early without telling you?

I don’t think it’s harsh. It’s clearly a trust issue.
May least she could have told you she finished quickly on this occasion and asked to leave early etc.
then maybe you could have been like oh thanks for honesty and it’s a one off so yeh etc etc.
but I don’t think it’s right she’s taken advantage of you not being there.
my cleaners sometimes take 3 hours, sometimes less and they charge for the time. So my fee varies. That’s our agreement.

It’s also not possible to do two hours’ work in less time. If you do “two hours’ work” in one and a half hours. It was one and and half hours work

Exactly. If you are invoicing by the hour then she's done 1.5 hours work, not two and she should be charging for that. If the tasks can be done in 1.5 hours then thats what she should be charging for! Someone who lies isnt a "good worker".

When it comes to services I don't give second chances.
If you don't respect our working relationship enough to be honest with me, then yes, the trust is gone!
I'd have done what you did.

Most cleaners round our way charge per job and price up based on the expected work and the size of the rooms etc, that seems to be the most fair way to do it as all the work is priced in, and it avoids all these kind of misunderstandings and differing perceptions of what's fair and what isn't.

Cleaners take heed, just be clear on what you are selling and what you are not! If you're selling time, roughly stick to it, if you're selling your labour based on scope of work required, no matter how long it takes to complete the tasks, just say so!

I also agree with SmileyClare, on all she said re self employed status, you do get to choose how you want to operate and people can then buy it or not, but please for heaven's sake, and to save all this, just say which way it's going to be at the very beginning.

You’re entitled to that stance; you’re not tied to a contract.
Most self employed cleaners and trades rely on word of mouth so gaining a customer’s trust is pretty important.

Respecting the working relationship goes both ways it has to be said.

I’ll always go the extra mile for the customers I clean for because they treat me very well.

I have had clients show no respect- “forget” to pay me or late payers,, money short, going out and forgetting they’d booked a clean, having dinner parties and leaving the kitchen like a bombsite and complaining when I can’t get it all done in the usual time, leaving used sanitary products on the bedroom floor, expecting work outside my remit; like oven cleaning, I was left a note once asking me to clear a garden pond) ..I was accused of stealing a necklace, omitting to tell me they had a creepy lodger who always made advances.. I could go on 😂

I’ve been doing this job long enough to afford to be quite choosy about who I take on as regulars.

I suppose if you do find an exceptionally hard working honest cleaner or tradesperson that gives 100% and you’d trust with your first born child then treat them with the kindness and respect you expect in return.

You’ll win their loyalty- it’s likely they’ll do more than a satisfactory job for you and you’ll hopefully hold on to them.

All of that is irrelevant wrt this OP though @SmileyClare. There is nothing in OP's post to suggest she takes the piss out of her cleaner. She wasn't asking her to do above her agreed hours. Just her agreed hours.

Yes sorry @bibbitybobbityyhat I went off on a tangent there!

That was mainly in reply to the poster demanding that services should respect a “working relationship”. I wanted to point out that it goes both ways.

Op did mention that she always stops and chats over a coffee with her cleaner. Well intentioned I’m sure but I find it quite awkward when customers do this.

I don’t need a break, I find it quite difficult not to be polite and it eats into my time so I either run late or have to rush at the end to get it done.

Digressing again but- One of my customers is going through a divorce and will often stand in the kitchen offloading on me at the moment, it’s a bit intense to be honest but I’m trying to make sympathetic noises and clean at the same time because she has always been a good customer. 😬

Im a self employed cleaner and charge by the hour. I often run over and sometimes run under. I would leave without ‘clearing it’ if done earlier.

the thing is, the job IS often finite. I don’t do ovens/ironing and inside cupboards unless doing a pre arranged deep clean. I always- as in every visit - do ALL the house. This means internal windows, all skirting, paint work, finials, stools, dining chairs - and all the other things touted on here as ‘extra’, as j operate like this, this can be a quick wipe of some and a deeper of others/ but all are given the attention required. For me, there wouldn’t be any extra jobs to do (that I deem part of my role- or that I’ve agreed to undertake in my pre appointment meeting- I’m not a skivvy!).

the ‘hours’ booked for are a best estimate based upon the condition of the house when it’s first seen, type of fixtures - plus a built in ‘averaged’ buffer for variations (e.g .inclement weather/ post visitors (particularly toddlers and pets!) and things like extra mess and clutter during Halloween and Xmas (tree needles anyone!!) This is calculated with the knowledge that I usually work at mode 8 - sometimes due to illness (or just life) I’m running on 6 and conversely, sometimes I’m on a 10! It is not okay or reasonable for me to book clients on always working at a 10, I have to book assuming I need to be up to all jobs, booked that week. Not give someone 10, and the others 5.

ive never thought to explicitly state this, or been questioned on it tbh. It seems logical to me.

i guess you either want your set 2 hours each time - even if the jobs are not really necessary and are just ‘fillers’ or you want the house to get what it needs (which WILL vary) as it needs it.

so for me the question is do you pay extra for more hours for e.g Xmas post clean - or do you accept that it won’t be thoroughly cleaned , or do you expect standard X - no matter what variables exist that week? …….If the latter then varied finishes at times are inherent in this model.

@Sleepeazie It sounds like you operate very much like I do, I totally agree that it needs to be very clear what customers are paying for so everyone’s happy!

I started cleaning after teaching for 6 years left me on the verge of a breakdown., fortunately I found I love it 😂

However let’s face it, many cleaners are hardworking but haven’t had the privilege of a good education, maybe lack business acumen or the skills to navigate customer relations, many have English as a second language.

I can see how miscommunications arise and a hard working cleaner who feels a bit hard done by because they’ve often done extras or factored in time to chat to a client assumes they can charge the same for a short clean occasionally.

That’s all handled badly, not communicated and the customer feels taken advantage of.

Who knows if that’s the case here but I hear such a negative opinion of cleaners so regularly I actually feel a bit embarrassed to tell people what I do for a job sometimes!

@SmileyClare i too used to be a teacher! (Ignore last nights grammar, I had had a few drinks 😉).

So for me, the OP isn’t wrong to be annoyed - as the cleaner lied.

I think a lot of problems with cleaners, are caused by either them or the client wanting to flit between the cleaning package ‘models’ to benefit them.

You’re either;

• ‘input’ focused - i pay for 2 hours I want it (come what may)

or
—output focused - I want ‘x’ standard of the things we agreed I’ll pay the set price and appreciate time spent each session will be variable (come what may and how ever long it takes, within reason)

the problems come when the cleaner says ‘I’m done, I’m leaving early’ one week, ‘I haven’t got time to do that (usual job)’ the following. Equally if the client expects extra to fill the time if you’re fast, but doesn’t pay extra when they leave extra work.

@Sleepeazie you’ve articulated a common issue really well there, and often it’s a lack of communication on both sides that gives rise to problems.

Of course there are bad pennies in every industry, I’d advise going on recommendations and checking references before hiring a new cleaner op, and then thrashing out expectations from the start.

I’m conscious that I’m hijacking poor op’s thread at this stage but I just wanted to give a fellow cleaner/ ex teacher a virtual wave 👋

@VincentVaguer
I agree with you.