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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not want my daughter to behave with men the way I did when I was young?

72 replies

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 10:03

So I am now in my late 30's, and happily married with a daughter who is still too young to be interested in dating. However when I look to the future I hope that she isn't like me when it comes to boys, men and dating.

When I was in my teens and even early 20's I was in awe of men I really thought that they were so much better than me and that their opinion of me was very important. I had a horrible tendency to fall for guys who showed me any attention and then I'd be crushed when they were cruel or ended up losing interest in me and I'd think about how defective I must be, how fat, how ugly or how boring and stupid I must be not to hold their interest. By now you must have the impression of a very sad and pathetic young women but I was actually not that way at all I was popular, attractive and doing very well at university. I was shy and had many hang ups about my looks but that isn't unusual. I remember I'd worry even years after being dumped or rejected by a boy I'd still be trying to figure out why, what I'd done wrong, what was wrong with me.

I only really recovered from this whole way of thinking when I met my husband at 24 and he treated me so well and showed me what a real relationship should be like. In a sense all the awful stuff might have made me recognise and value DH when he came along but I so wish I had just been much more detached about it all instead of making some random guys opinion of me so important.

I wish I could give my daughter that clarity from the get go. I know its harder when you are that young because everything is so new and you can't have that sort of perspective. At that age you also don't know who that person you will end up being with is it could be anyone so their is a sense of being more open in general to well everything because who knows!

I just know that for me I made some fairly big choices at times that were really influenced by guys that were ultimately not really that important in my life and that I wasted so much energy and time worrying about what I had done wrong to lose them. I know that in marriage compromise is vital but just want my daughter to put herself first until she meets someone who is really worth her time, love and energy. I do remember older people including my parents trying to give me such advice in my teens and it fell on deaf ears sadly. My daughter is smart and independent, she has a great relationship with her father but I that was me too and I still ended up as I did in my teens, maybe all that is normal?

Anyway my question is how do you raise a girl into her teens so that she is confident in herself and isn't crushed and drowned in self doubt when some boy messes her about and is able to stay true to herself and not be swayed by whatever the latest guy is saying to do?

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 18/04/2023 11:53

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 11:40

@ArcticSkewer Well its hard to talk about this concern without focusing on that subject so I can see how it might sound that way. I do have a happy marriage now and my husband is very important to me like I said our relationship has been one of the greatest joys of my life but I also have children, a successful career, friends, I've travelled, lived abroad on my own so its not like all this preoccupies me 24/7.

These are my own private thoughts that I am sharing here not something I'm talking to my daughter about at all. I don't encourage her crushes but what can I do to stop her? She likes famous boys not boys in her class. I was the same I had crushes on male actors in their teens and 20's from about age 8, it was very non sexual and I honestly don't think it was that unusual. I do remember other girls at primary school "going out with" some boy in class but at that age I wasn't interested in a real boyfriend.

Yes I get that. You are quite a bit younger than me. I was happily married once too. Now, from a more cynical and older divorced perspective, I am super chill about my kids relationships in the sense that I encourage them to think in cycles or stages, rather than finding 'the one'. I definitely would never want them to think they needed a life partner at all, so it's more about 'mr or ms right for now'. We also talk a lot about different sexualities - teens and young adults are very likely to be bi, or at least experiment. Most of all, I would never ever want my kids to think their main point in life would be to find a partner and settle down - that's why I suggested talking to her about pretty much everything else - hobbies, sports, interests, future career options, future volunteering, future travel.I wouldn't pay the remotest bit of attention to any talk of crushes.

Bumfluffs · 18/04/2023 12:03

I agree op. I slept around a lot in my younger days and put myself in some precarious situation.
Nothing bad ever happened to me but I was always worried about saying no to men. Not sure why, prob low self esteem.
I had fun all in all but slept with a lot of men I wouldn’t even dream of sleeping with now.

I hope my daughter has more confidence than me x

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:07

@ArcticSkewer Well that is all good advice and I agree that I want to encourage her interests, her abilities and so on over what kind of man she can snag.

I suppose I might be coming from quite an unusual background (Irish catholic) in that I literally know nobody who is divorced, there are no divorces in my family and never have been in fact the only divorce I can recall is a couple on my street when I was a kid who lived though the wall from us. That was quite a bitter divorce and he was horribly abusive to his wife and his children. Even amongst the couples I know who aren't married the all met someone in their 20's and are still together. I know nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors or what the future holds so I do get what you are saying. I'm more worried about him dying really but I suppose the same principle applies that if you make another person the centre of your universe then if they leave or die then you have nothing. I don't think I am like that and I will always encourage my daughter to have her own life even in a happy marriage.

OP posts:
TwoPointFourCatsAndDogs · 18/04/2023 12:10

I've always tried to teach my DC healthy boundaries, confidence, kindness, empathy, leadership. They're great, well rounded kids...... or so I thought.

My DD15 has always been very emotionally mature, very popular, very confident (class councilor, form captain, house captain, etc.), very sporty, good grades, loyal to her friends, captain of many sports teams, a great leader, never shies away from being out spoken or on a stage, has good boundaries, helps with chores, rarely moody, she's beautiful - she's a dream and DH and I are blessed.

She recently broke up with her first BF after 6 months, a boy she had adored for a long time, she was heartbroken. When the truth came tumbling out of her she had put up with really poor behaviour from him. He never spoke to her at school and would often completely blank her, he didn't send her a Christmas or Valentine cards, didn't Facetime with her on Valentines day (we were on holiday), often arrived late, stood her up in front of her friends. Surely a Valentine card is relationship basics!

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:11

@Bumfluffs I really appreciate you and all the other women who are posting saying you felt similar. I think lots of women do and that its normal to some extent due to hormones, brain development and life stage, I sometimes refer to my youthful scrapes as my "juvenilia" and I can laugh about it all now but the thought of my daughter going through the same isn't funny at all!

I also admire the women who didn't feel or act the way I did but perhaps it was all just part of who I am?

OP posts:
purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:16

@TwoPointFourCatsAndDogs Well at 15 a Valentine card is essential!

Your daughter sounds amazing! I was clever and artistic and never did any sports which I am glad DD is doing as I think its so very good for them and another poster mentioned girl guides which sounds great so I'm going to ask her if she fancies that. It was also good that she was able to talk to you about her boyfriend and to recognise what poor behaviour that was, at her age I was with a boy like that for nearly 18 months (a long time at that age) and I'm embarrassed to admit really thought of myself as "X's girlfriend", how tragic!

OP posts:
gogohmm · 18/04/2023 12:17

The key from my experience is to bring them up believing they can be strong independent women, confident in their ability to support themselves. My DD's have serious boyfriends now but they don't feel the need to lean on them and believe they are in charge of their own destiny. One in particular is very much breaking through barriers as a woman and her dp is very much along for the ride! (Far too outing to discuss)

ArcticSkewer · 18/04/2023 12:19

It's more likely your behaviour was part of your upbringing, so if you didn't want to see it repeated, you would change her environment - pretty much as you are asking, really! Some other posters probably had the same kinds of upbringings, so are similar.

It isn't a surprise to hear about your background, it's pretty clear from your posts that it's a cultural attitude to relationships, marriage, and heteronormative behaviours that runs deep. You sound happy. If she looks at your life successes, your career, your friends, your travels, your full life beyond home and husband, then that will be an inspiration to her as something to aspire to.

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:29

@CreationNat1on Thanks for your post, very interesting to see your experience as mother of boys. I think it could be true what you say that boys might just not really be ready for relationships at that age. I guy I'm still friends with from my university days was very good looking and cool, lots of girls liked him but never really had a girlfriend until he was in his mid 20's as he just wasn't ready until then. I do recall he got himself into some hot water though in that he did like girls (not me in this instance) and would form close friendships or flirtations but then run a mile if the girl actually reciprocated but I admire him for knowing that he wasn't ready. I felt ready for it all but would have probably benefited from some delay to my romantic adventures!

"I guess the 90s were different, a lot more grungy. I see some of the boys that I craved attention from, absolute losers then and now."

Lol, this rings so true for me as well, I really do not understand what I saw in many of them I wouldn't want to call them losers because hey it's their life but I dread to think how my life would be if I'd ended up with any of them!

OP posts:
Newyeardietstartstomorrow · 18/04/2023 12:29

If OP's daughter is a lesbian then her fears will be somewhat eradicated because they are steeped in our misogyny culture. Plus she said her daughter is showing a preference to boys. agree. I am relieved that my own dd is more likely to bring a girl home than a boy. When my mil asks her the usual about whether there are any nice rich boyfriends yet my dd and I exchange amused glances.

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:36

@ArcticSkewer I think I see where you are coming from perhaps a certain feminist context and I do appreciate that I've read radical feminist writers of the 70's (in fact my daughter is named after one) myself and I can see what they mean but I am what am and I am happy. Like you say we are all products of our upbringing and experiences, if the circumstances of my life change then I imagine I will change as well.

OP posts:
Theprincessisblanketed · 18/04/2023 12:39

Rumpleforeskinz · 18/04/2023 10:25

I reflect on this always. I desperately want my daughter to have the self-assurance and confidence I feel now in my late 30s from the outset. I do wonder though if a lot of it is tied in with maturity / life lessons and it’s something that we all go through regardless of how our parents try to guide us.

Yes. I'd love to spare my daughter what I went through, but I know full well there is not a thing in the world my parents could have said or done to stop me charting my own course.

ArcticSkewer · 18/04/2023 12:47

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 12:36

@ArcticSkewer I think I see where you are coming from perhaps a certain feminist context and I do appreciate that I've read radical feminist writers of the 70's (in fact my daughter is named after one) myself and I can see what they mean but I am what am and I am happy. Like you say we are all products of our upbringing and experiences, if the circumstances of my life change then I imagine I will change as well.

I honestly think that showing our daughters how we achieve life happiness, however that is, is the best thing we can do to guide them towards their own future happiness. They will take different paths, but knowing not to compromise happiness for others and living a full life, is giving them a great model for life.

Invadersmustdie · 18/04/2023 13:00

What does your daughter witness at home? Does your husband pull his weight? Does she watch her parents contribute equally in the house? You and her dad are her role models. It's important she see's equality. Perhaps when we are young we need to experience the idiots, I wouldn't worry to much about that. It's who she chooses as a life partner that's important.

Mummyoflittledragon · 18/04/2023 13:31

My year 10, 14 year old dd is very much more confident than I ever was. In my household I was led to believe men were superior and I had an older brother, who mercilessly bullied me including some quite disturbing behaviour. I thought boys, men would be my way out. My knight in shining armour and I put up with the most dreadful behaviour.

My dd otoh has been brought up in the knowledge that we are all equals. I have always treated her friends and her with a great deal of care and respect. When there was a boy at school and a few parents were banning their dcs from playing with him, I didn’t do the same. I don’t believe in writing off 6 and 7 year olds because they have had a difficult start in life. I also tried to catch him doing something good so I could say well done. Not to say that I didn’t teach dd boundaries. But I think it is important for her to see that human nature is caring and forgiving, that I won’t reject her for doing or saying certain things in the way that my mother did with me.

When in year 7 I saw a friend was controlling dd, blowing hot and cold, sometimes treating her like a nothing in my house then being so caring. At the time the girl was coming over almost every day during lockdown and staying until evening at the time (once hanging in the garden was allowed) and I ended up feeding her too. She was doing other worrying stuff besides and I told dd the girl could only come over twice a week in an attempt to allow dd to foster other friendships. The girl didn’t like dd having other friends, said horrible things about some of them and ultimately the friendship between dd and her ended. Yes she was caring but she was using my dd as a bit of an emotional punch bag. I felt sorry for her but she (and her mother) were expecting too much from an 11/12 year old. I think that was a big lesson in boundaries for my dd.

Dh is a very engaged father. This helps a lot as well. Has always taken her places when I cannot due to disability and chronic illness. She also sees him do a lot around the house to help me so has learned men do things too apart from just work. Engaged fathers are an important piece of the puzzle especially for teens - boys and girls. That’s not to say single mums cannot do a sterling job as many on here do.

I have always kept dd busy with out of school sports activities - she’s very sporty - so that her life never became just hanging around as a teen and she likes being busy. I am too ill to work so have the time. In that way, dd is blessed.

She’s never actually had a boyfriend. She’s had crushes and I know some boys have fancied her. She’s not really that interested right now. She’s enjoying her life, her sports, her friendships. Doesn’t care about being a 3rd wheel. Has lots of male friends. She loves school as well. We moved her to the private sector for year 9 btw as she wasn’t happy nor thriving at her former state secondary.

Dd pushes herself in some ways, not in others. She’s a very different child due to a change of school. For example, she’s doing her silver Duke of Edinburgh through school this year and taking GCSE PE when she wasn’t interested DofE at her former school and refused to show any aptitude for sport there resulting her being put into the lowest set for PE when she’s incredibly sporty. This is also really helping to shape her. Two nights in a tent you have to build and take down, 16 mile walks with kit on your back, orienteering and feeding yourself when you get back to camp. Plus all of the other activities to get the award.

Unlike my mother, I am a feminist and dd has definitely benefited from this. Even as a young child, toys were just toys and she had diggers and tool kits as well as dolls and pretty dresses. She was always such a decisive, determined child, who knew what she wanted, what she would like to wear and so forth. So I’ve just done my best to shape her and bullet proof her into believing she’s worthy of respect. And she really believes it… at least vis a vis her parents. As in she expects not just to give it to us but to receive it too! I must say parenting that way was more difficult for a long while. But I am seeing glimmers of hope and a start of the appreciation for all the sacrifices.

As for school, it’s important not to make that a battle ground, which is why we moved dd to the private sector - dd asked to move btw. More recently dd had a fair few run ins with school re uniform and jewellery. In the end I contacted the school and negotiated a way for them both to take a step back. I think that’s easier to do when the school has 40 kids rather than 250 in the year!

Ultimately, it’s listening to your child. If they start to have worrying behaviour, it’s time to get them busy doing something else. Negotiating, talking, not taking sides too vehemently either with or against her. And to bear in mind that by year 10, it’s very difficult to tell a child what to do as it’s pretty much parenting by consent these days.

I can forbid dd from doing something for example. But I have no way of stopping her as she could just walk out the door… not that she does this. She knows I have her back. Always. Even if it isn’t how she wants me to act.

It’s trying, especially with the strops, the meanness, the accusations of me not supporting her and so forth over these past few years. You’re just entering in them. Dd is quite mature for her age and starting to get past it, I’ve still got a way to go though…

honeylulu · 18/04/2023 14:04

I was similar to you in my youth. My self esteem and confidence was rock bottom and that was the main issue. My parents were very religious and determined not to make us "conceited" so I was regularly criticised and rarely praised, particularly about my looks. They were also determined that I should not have a boyfriend until I was at least 18 and only one then that I would marry fairly young without any of the vulgar living together business. I was sent to a strict all girls school, mum tried to choose my friends and hobbies (single sex ones like guides). Consequently boys were forbidden fruit and I became obsessed with the idea of having a boyfriend. After years of being told I was "no oil painting " it was very seductive to have young men making clear they found me sexy and attractive. Looking back they were such an unknown quantity I saw them as almost beings from another world! I was used or treated badly by a few. Others I went out with who I didn't really feel attracted to but I needed their adoration. It was a total hot mess. Eventually I snapped out of it, and got together with my husband (age 21) and we're still together 28 years later. Though this was the first and only "normal" relationship I've had. In contrast my daughter is unfazed by boys (has a big brother and mixed sex education) and plenty of self esteem. I hope and expect she'll fare better than me. We speak openly to our kids about knowing your worth, being happy with yourself and the importance of consent.

WhereMyRosemaryGoes · 18/04/2023 19:45

I think a lot of us were quite explicitly taught that boys were better than girls. I was.

This has changed. None of us are giving our daughters this message.

neilyoungismyhero · 20/06/2023 18:10

purpleteacup · 18/04/2023 10:16

@Easterfunbun Yes it is frightening to look back and see the risks I took at that age, I'm probably very lucky nothing worse has happened to me!

I'm pretty sure there are thousands of women saying the same thing and thanking their lucky stars on a daily basis.

Hugasauras · 20/06/2023 18:17

What was your relationship with your dad like? I did a lot of stupid stuff with men and put far too much stock into trying to impress them or tied too much self-worth into what they thought of me. It's only relatively recently I've realised that it stems in large part from the poor relationship with my dad, where as a child I spent a long time trying to impress him so he would want to spend time with me.

DH is very different to my dad, so I'm hoping having a positive male role model will decrease the likelihood that either DD folles my path where I tried to win the approval of men to make up for never managing it in childhood.

mayorofcasterbridge · 20/06/2023 18:22

Bambooflowers · 18/04/2023 11:04

Please don’t assume your daughter will be straight, I find your attitude so dated. Just teach her good boundaries and maybe grow up a little

I find your attitude so OTT.

It's a fairly safe bet that the vast majority of girls will be straight. If it turns out that they're not, so what?!

mayorofcasterbridge · 20/06/2023 18:29

WhereMyRosemaryGoes · 18/04/2023 19:45

I think a lot of us were quite explicitly taught that boys were better than girls. I was.

This has changed. None of us are giving our daughters this message.

I agree - I think girls get a different message now.

However I'm 60 and my mother in particular took the opposite attitude. She and my dad had one son in a family of girls. Mum literally bent over backwards to make sure my brother was never favoured in any way! She had just one brother, and my granny idolised him so she was determined not to do the same.

Showersugar · 20/06/2023 18:40

Assuming she grows up to be heterosexual, her relationship with the opposite sex parent can be really formative.

It's about more than him being attentive and loving, it's about him really respecting your daughter's boundaries, encouraging her to be a bit sassy, teaching her the power of a well timed "fuck off" (or some other assertive phrase if you're not a sweary house!), using his relationship with you to model to her how men should treat women (or how partners should treat each other).

It's really great you're thinking about this stuff so young, your daughter is lucky to have you.

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