Are male role models really so vital?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I was talking with a friend who is not with the father of her ds - in fact the father is not involved at all. She was talking about how important it is for her ds to have positive male role models in his life. She is in a same sex relationship now and is cultivating relationships with various males from her extended family with her ds to ensure that her ds has these apparently vital positive role models.

I'm sure this is great but I wondered how important it actually is. My dfriend is going to quite some lengths to get it all in place in some of the cases and I wonder if it's worth it? I have two sons and they do see their df regularly but he's not that great of a role model (bit of a deadbeat dad, as they are increasingly aware as they get older) and they rarely see either grandfather and there are no other male family members. I also don't have close male friends that they see so the only males they really know are their df (not a role model) and teachers.

My conversation with my friend has got me wondering if I have been remiss in not paying more attention to this - I have been split from their df for about 10 years.

AIBU not to have addressed this?

I think it’s important for children to have strong male and female role models in their life.

As a generalisation men who have grown up without a positive male role model in their life are less likely to have a good education, are more likely to be addicts and are more likely to end up in jail.

I do think it's important for children to have role models to show them what/how they can be as adults. I don't think it needs to be as structured as your friend's making it.

Teachers can definitely be role models, or club leaders, or friend's parents, or people he admires in sport, or people doing jobs he admires.

Yes, I am aware of that research but wondered if there is a bot of false equivalence? My dc are well into secondary school and excelling so doubt it's going to apply and, while my df's son is a lot younger, I feel he's going to be similar. Is it that many people who end up in jail come from 'broken homes' (bloody awful expression) and are therefore most likely to be living just with a dm, but that alone isn't what causes their issues?

I think it's really important for boys and girls to have male role models. I agree with your friend wholeheartedly and would be doing the same thing as her if I was a single mum.

I also think children maybe need different role models for different parts of life (although obviously one person can tick more than one box)

Eg modeling how to be a father, modeling how to be a partner, modeling how to cope with hard times, modeling how to cope with agression, modeling how to be a hard worker, modeling how to be happy.

IIRC from the research the mother's influence is more important that the father's.

Just from observation, it seems that teen boys need a male role model or even jusr a male disciplinarian. Is it some sort of atavistic thing? My single mum friends do seem to find that boys, for a couple of years, don't respond to her at all. Whereas the mums with male partners and teenage boys have it easier. It does seem to pass after a couple of years.
Then again, I'm only one person and maybe my perceptions are skewed.

Yes it is.

I great up with 0 contact from father.

My mum was fantastic and more than stepped up, I was loved unconditionally and nurtured in my early years well so school was a doddle. Overall I am
a success story of single parenting.

I also grew up unable to gauge what was normal behaviour for men and was therefore very open to the manipulation of older men who knew exactly what they were doing. There is no doubt in my mind that had I had a decent fathers input I would have had a much better chance of seeing through these guys bullshit from the off and didn’t need to experience a lot of the trauma that resulted from that.

Your friend is wise to promote the healthy men in her children’s lives as the examples or what else will they use?

Children need both, obviously, but I do think good male role models are very important for boys in particular. Men can model behaviour such as physical resilience & courage, competitiveness, drive, ambition, teamwork etc which don’t come as naturally to many women, particularly if they are very nurturing, maternal types. Men can also show boys how to use their strength & physicality to protect, rather than intimidate.

Jesus. What century are you living in?

1Week That's interesting and something I have seen mentioned on here quite a bit. Tbh, it's made me feel a bit, Idk, off, when posters have advised struggling mothers that they need to get a male to speak to their sons as it seems a bit defeatist and sexist, but maybe I'm just lucky in that mine (for the most part... ) do listen to me. When they do play up, I can't imagine getting some bloke in to be all manly with them, but I suppose that's because we have got this far without that.

SomePosters That's also interesting but I can also think of some friends who have lovely fathers but tend to expect all men to be like them? I don't know, I just wonder if it's more a case of some men (and women...) are shit and kids would be better off without them, some are great and an asset to anyone's life, and others are just...ok, as with all people and the sex of key adults in child's life isn't that important. Probably just wishful thinking on my part...

I think children need Male and female role models. I'm a female teacher. I don't think we are role models because we don't get chance to cultivate as meaningful relationships as previously was possible.

I'd say very important . The level of knife crime / county lines is often put down to kids growing up with no fathers or male role models

I agree. I don't think the sex of the role model matters. Especially given we now live in such a gender fluid society. Strong, resilient, caring, stable, emotionally available PEOPLE are what children need. It sounds like you've done an amazing job with yours OP. Some of the posts on this thread are ridiculous.

I think children need good role models of both sexes. My daughters would think men are useless if they just had their df but fortunately dd1 has some male teachers she really respects (including one who recently helped her through a meltdown - she’s autistic) and my dp who does stuff like housework, cooks dinner, cries watching sad movies, but also likes football, so removes a few stereotypes too.

I don’t think it’s about disciplining children - dp knows it isn’t his place to tell my children off - but subliminally providing an example of a competent person and modelling good, healthy, trusting relationships (whether friendship, family, romantic).

Actually I think it's very important, especially for young males.

Yes. Of course they are.

YABU. It’s extremely important. Crime mostly comes out of broken homes, and the impact a good father has on a child is totally understated.

Values these days seem to have been lost by so many, and people really should think long and hard about the partner they’re with and whether they’re a suitable candidate to be a parent.

If the answer is no, regardless of how much you love them or want children, a child should not be brought into that relationship. It isn’t fair on anyone.

I think good human role models are more important than their sex.

Most of the replies that say I'm being UR seem to be just conforming to gender stereotypes and if the men in their lives don't conform to these it almost doesn't count? Ex was a bit of a shit in that he had an affair and is useless now but when we were together was quite a decent sahd - would go to toddler groups, did vast majority of housework, liked both sport and films/music etc. But when people talk about knife crime etc is this what they mean?

It's quite an offensive post overall, but are you sure that the reason most crome comes out of 'broken homes' is that the men in the 'not-broken homes' are preventing it? Or is it more complex?

In cases like my friends, of course it's lovely for her to set up activities for her ds and various uncles/cousins etc, but is it really these that are going to prevent her ds from entering a life of crime? Or something more fundamental to the way she is bringing him up/running her home. And luck?

Possibly you're right.
I'm not trying to be ideological about things, just passing on observations.

It certainly would be nice if we could just decide as a society to eliminate the more inexplicable and irrational parts of human nature through sheer force will.
We've had a few decades of modernity. Millenia upon millenia of development - and we understand that poorly.

I don’t think boys they need a man to tell them off, especially not if he’s not their dad (in most cases, I’d think this was inappropriate). But I do think it’s important to have role models of both sexes growing up.

Obviously some boys will be fine without good male role models. But I think they have a better chance of becoming good men, if they have close relationships with good men during their formative years. It doesn’t have to be their dad. Uncles, grandparents, teachers etc can all be role models too.

I've worked in both adult and youth justice systems, in short yes it is vital for boys (and girls) to have positive male role models. They don't have to be father figures.
Especially where there are other areas of social/emotional deprivation in their lives

A role model isn't someone to come round be macho and tell your DC off.....