Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

Because (some) see their ancestry- usually multiple generations back, and still being a close associate of that country. You're not Scottish, Irish, Italian etc- you're American with ancestry from those countries. The lack of ability to accept that is probably what irks.

As I've said, my heritage is Irish Catholic and Russian Ashkenazi Jew. Much like @artimesiasfootsteps, my parents were the first to marry outside of their heritage. Just because my parents and grandparents never lived in Ireland or Russia doesn't mean their lives weren't impacted massively by their respective cultures.

The food I ate growing up was cooked by my mother who learned to cook from her mother, so we ate traditional Russian recipes every day. We used Yiddish phrases in our everyday life. Despite not being religious, we kept a Mezuzah at the door. We celebrated Jewish holidays with traditions passed down from my Russian ancestors. Similarly, we ate Irish food when visiting my paternal grandparents, celebrated Christmas holidays with Irish traditions, and listened to traditional Irish songs sung by my grandparents.

My great-aunt says we still have relatives in Cork, but I don't know them and certainly wouldn't turn up on their doorstep. All of my Russian relatives either died in the Holocaust or made it to Canada and the USA safely.

So while I would never claim to be a national of Ireland or Russia, you're damn right I am descended from those cultures and it is a huge part of my life. My children will also be a part of these cultures along with their father's English heritage, which happens to be his nationality. My children are dual citizens of the UK and Canada. My youngest has yet to go to Canada. He is still Canadian.

Ronald Reagan although he waited until he was elected to claim his Irish ancestry. When POTUS he visited Ireland and went to the home of his great grandfather. Nixon had some Irish roots as well and did the Irish visit when POTUS.

Uk had plenty of slave labour from countries it invaded. And plenty of killing of indigenous peoples as well. All in the last centuries. I wouldn’t be too cocky if I were you.

I don't think people are sneering but I do think this is just another form of 'othering' oneself in a country that has such prominent segregation of people, in the hierarchy of segregated groups European backgrounds are higher up so people cling to them, African Americans weren't even given that choice, they were given a collective heritage title to call themselves regardless of what description they would like to claim for themselves.

Biden has also got almost equal English heritage with relatives in England but he's deciding to ignore that fact which is also surprising given his apparent desire to claim this (conveniently politically positive) Irish heritage based on his 'roots'

And you do realise @Isanyoneup that many countries still feel the negative effects of colonialism to this day? Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

American politicians love the narrative of the Irish arriving in America.

It's all narrative. Watching Better Call Saul when Saul reveals his name is Jimmy McGill (I'm Irish). It's kind of like the default. You're not a wasp, you're the regular American white guy. You're Irish.

it's not just the politicians being cynical, everybody wants to identify with that resilience and capability, even if the truth is that they're 3/4s Polish. For example. Is there a narrative for Poland? Not so much.

So arriving in America and having nothing financially and dealing with the established citizens excluding you to retain their privilege but still overcoming that to be successful and loved is the american dream, but the Irish didn't have nothing, they had each other and they formed parishes and had support/customer bases that way. Other similarly excluded groups weren't doing that.

It’s not so much sneering that they have ancestry, but I find it odd how they seem to think that ancestry makes them whatever they’re saying. I’ve had people in America before say ‘oh you’re from Ireland! I’m Irish!’ The irony there being that they’re American and if they were Irish they’d probably twig that I’m Scottish!

I mean I’d find it a bit odd if someone with a strong Manchester accent told me they were French, then amended it to explain their ancestors in the 1700s lived in France. If you’ve never been to a country, have no relatives who grew up there, and don’t know anything about that country, it’s a bit odd to say you are from there.

I once had an American tell me off for saying black instead of African American. I was talking about a friend of mine, who was born and raised in the UK and has no African heritage. How on earth could she be African American? She is neither African or American! Had a similar issue in a class over there when I referred to the representation of Indian people in The Secret Garden. Was quietly corrected that it is ‘Native American.’

Sometimes I wonder if some people are just blinkered maybe.

And the Irish in a twofer. Find a way to drag the French in and they'll be in heaven.

I think the lrish stuck together a lot when they arrived ( I'm Irish) and their communities were very definitely lrish. Some even spoke the lrish language among themselves. They grew up doing lrish dancing/ playing garlic games/ marrying among themselves/ attending RC churches together so their children were very conscious of being lrish. I have relatives in the US and this is how they lived. They took a very keen interest in home
They were very focused on education and on doing well. Also lrish people due to their history are often very keen on politics so they often got involved. Two brothers whose parents are from Donegal are in the Senate. Their mom was the school lollipop lady and their dad cleaned an underground car park. They managed to educate their sons to a high level and their conversation at home was about history/ politics etc. They are lrish!!
If one of them or their ancestors became US president l would consider them lrish. Same with my own relatives.

North Americans are much more interested in their ancestry than English/Welsh/Scottish people. Genealogy is a HUGE thing in North America, multiple TV programmes about it. Anyone who has ever done an Ancestry DNA test will have multiple matches in the US/Canada.

This is not a bad thing, or a weird thing. It is simply that they have interests in different things. Americans/Canadians play ice hockey and baseball. We do not. This just another cultural difference.

Yes it might seem a bit weird calling yourself Scottish or Irish when you've never set foot in Edinburgh or Dublin. But really, what harm is it doing? None whatsoever. And it encourages those North Americans who do feel they have strong ties to any part of the UK to come here and spend money. Which is a positive thing.

https://pureportal.strath.ac.uk/en/projects/understanding-ancestral-tourism-2

Not sneering but I do find it strange that a nation that is made up 99% (at least) of relatively recent immigrants, so many of which are proud of their heritage has so many insular racists.
There again I also find it strange how many insular racists there are in the UK, another nation that consists of the descendents of immigrants, from Romans onwards.
Difference is we don't tend to make such a big deal over who we are decended from. I mean I know I have relatively recent Irish (my grandfather), Polish (grandmother) and a fair amount of Roma (same grandparents), but I still put British on forms that ask for my ethnicity. I can have pride in where I come from, without declaring it all the time.

I agree completely.

Because banging on about your Irish/Scottish heritage when you have one Irish/Scottish set of great grandparents and have never even been there is daft, especially if you are very in-your-face and flag-wavy about it and weigh in heavily on related historical political issues or cultural controversies you have no experience or knowledge of.

Mind you, I've never really understood the desire to identify with your ancestors. People research their family trees, pick the one great great grandparent who did something interesting or came from somewhere appealing and conveniently ignore all the rest! I don't care where my ancestors come from.

Artemiasfootsteps has made a very good point actually. While it is accepted and normalised for certain groups to continue their traditions and culture eg Chinese, why us it not acceptable for other groups to do this?

From an outsider’s perspective, regardless of race I would think of someone from America as American because the American culture is really strong - the vast majority of Americans tend to act in a certain way that is typical of Americans. So, an Irish American would be indistinguishable to me from any other type of American as they have certain behaviours, beliefs and mannerisms that only Americans have, regardless of whether they also continue other traditions alongside this.

But again @Fairislefandango what harm is it doing? It's no skin off my nose if someone from deepest Utah decides they're Scottish.

There are lots of hobbies that people do that other people feel are daft, but if it's not causing harm to other people, just live and let live. Americans/Canadians in general ARE more interested in their ancestry. Just because you don't "get it" doesn't make them daft.

From what I’ve seen the idea of cultural/national identity is very different in the US than it is in the UK. As someone else earlier said, in the UK if you had a grandparent from Ireland who moved to England where your family has lived since, you probably wouldn’t refer to yourself as Irish. Where as in the US they do.

I guess it’s just differences in how people perceive their own identity and culture.

Biden has also got almost equal English heritage with relatives in England but he's deciding to ignore that fact which is also surprising given his apparent desire to claim this (conveniently politically positive) Irish heritage based on his 'roots'

Bidens dying son was anointed last rights by an Irish Catholic priest - did he do this as it was conveniently politically positive @mayricio

you only need to look around mumsnet at the hundreds of posts if ‘I don’t want MiL to visit at the start when my baby is born, oh my DM is fine she lives round the corner’ , ‘ I am the main cater for her children’ ‘I’ve gone part time’ and so on that may give you an inkling as to why a mothers heritage may have a bigger influence on a child - and in Biden’s case he lived with his maternal grandparents for a time. So I don’t find it even remotely surprising that he identifies more with his mothers side - and all 4 of his grandparents on that side were Irish American.

Biden has also got almost equal English heritage with relatives in England but he's deciding to ignore that fact which is also surprising given his apparent desire to claim this (conveniently politically positive) Irish heritage based on his 'roots'

10 out of 16 of his great grandparents were Irish. That means 6 were from elsewhere - he is more Irish than English.

@Anotheronetwoone honestly try finding a non Irish Catholic priest ! Why hasn't Biden acknowledged his British heritage?

Actually many people, not just Americans do that, most people like to identify and acknowledge their heritage. It's actually British that are the odd ones out. Maybe it's something to do with the class system or something.

@KnittingNeedles it's unusual to work out heritage based on number of gp?! And also to discount a heritage based on number of gp?

It’s the “one drop” rule. Basically it used to be that one drop of African American blood made you black. That tradition still continues in people’s minds and it is why in the UK Meghan would be described as Mixed ethnicity but would be seen as African American in the US.

That’s interesting I didn’t realise lots of other places thought of identity like that too. It’s very interesting. I have Irish grandparents and a traveler grandparent but I don’t really identify with any of those at all. I find it interesting in terms of family history but it doesn’t come into my sense of self identity.

I don’t think either is wrong or to be sneered at. Just different ways of thinking I suppose.