Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

I think this is a major stretch. Interesting to think about but not convincing.

The convention isn't as strong as you suggest: you'll hear Chinese British Asian British, Indian British. Black British and Asian British are the two on the UK census. Actually what is most interesting about that census (and these categories are used elsewhere too) is that you can't identify as e.g. Caribbean British. You can be Black Caribbean. You can't be Irish British. Some ethnicities can be British, some can't.

America is less divisive if we go by language alone. But I don't think we should. People have their own, historically shaped, identities. They have preferred terms. Bureaucrats don't always think very hard. So I wouldn't read too much into it.

There are a few places on this thread where people imply that Americans just haven't got as far as the rest of us, yet. I'd like to know what it is they haven't achieved that Britain has. It is funny, because America was born of a notion of progress that suggested leaving the monarchy behind. It's not a failed or delayed Britain, whatever else it is. It is a distinct culture. I have never had the impression Americans are less proud of their American identity than the British.

I agree with @Anotheronetwoone

I Am Canadian. My mother’s family ( her grandfather) came from the Ukraine. They settled in a town mostly populated by others from the Ukraine, spoke the language, ate the food, followed the religion and customs, much the same way they would have in the Ukraine.
They came to a country with very low population, no settled towns. They were given land ( yes, I know this is problematic) and sent to populate an area where there was very little infrastructure. Basically, there was no ‘Canadian’ identity. Of course they hung on to their Ukrainian identity- what else was there? This was handed down through the generations.
Their temerity was enormous. At what point do you think people just let go of it? We are all Canadian but ignoring the Ukrainian heritage is impossible

@Anotheronetwoone I'm not put out in the slightest 🤣

I saw this thread and decided to comment as a) it's a public chat board and b) it's talking about a very peculiar quirk of Americans that I - and clearly many many others - have noticed.

I feel more perplexed than sneery to be honest but that might be just typical of my ilk.

Interesting that you've mentioned the British media in your strop to me but I neither control or represent whatever media you've seen so it's irrelevant.

Growing up, I remember kids asking each other “where are you from?” Or “What are you?”

We were all white. No one minded the question and everyone liked answering, proud to share their heritage.

That was 40 years ago. Maybe things have changed, but I doubt it.

Up to them. Presumably, people are less likely to maintain these identities if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, or if an emphasis on family heritage is less socially acceptable. Urbanisation, settlement patterns etc play a part. Social welfare state too.

It's not just about where you migrate from: it's about where you migrate to.

I sneer. At tartan obsessed Americans who claim to be "Scotch" and think we al Iive with our clans.

I thought it was considered inappropriate to call Ukraine "The" Ukraine these days?

This - if I were an American I’d spend hours researching my ancestry. I do already, but I’m British and most of my ancestry is southern and east England. I have Welsh great grandparents but I am not Welsh - I have welsh ancestry. If I were American I’d describe it in the same way.

There’s no harm in finding out where you came from - it’s fascinating, and addictive!

@Dotcheck My husband’s family was similar, his great-grandparents lived in Croatian and Polish immigrant communities and learned limited English. Their children went to school in the US though and married outside the communities so the languages and most traditions were gradually lost.

I wonder whether these connections might be less important to younger generations as the world’s a much smaller place now? The countries your ancestors left aren’t mythical places now, you easily my find out about them and watch TikTok’s made practically anywhere!

Alot of these attitudes are really problematic. My child is one sixteenth of a "native" of the colonised country they live in ... for me it will be very important that they understand and retain that part of their culture. What many posters are basically saying is because they will look white, and most people will think they are white it will be ridiculous for them to also identify with that part of their ethnicity, race and culture. That's white washing in the ultimate form! I think some of you posters really need to think about what you are saying and the implications of that.

I am Irish and I have no problem with Biden or anybody else claiming to be Irish American or Irish. If they are speaking with an American accent and say they are Irish I obviously know they mean they are of Irish descent, they are Irish American.

Biden's ancestors are 10/16 Irish. He grew up in Scranton in a very Irish community. He spent a lot of time with his grandparents whose parents came from Ireland.
The Irish who travelled to America did so out of necessity, they formed communities and ensured they passed down their Irish culture and traditions to the next generation. This could be through religion by going to mass every Sunday, the importance of family, Irish music and poetry, children attending Irish dancing lessons and/or playing Irish sports, attending Irish Catholic schools.
Joe Biden talks about how his grandparents and parents were so proud of their Irish culture, about how they told him 'the best bit of him was Irish' and about how he was equal to anyone, no better or no worse than anyody else. It was this upbringing that formed his identity and that of millions more Americans of Irish descent. He clearly has a strong affinity for Ireland, it was an important part of his culture growing up and he has visited Ireland on many occasions and has made strong connections with his cousins etc.

Personally I think that it is really nice that so many Irish Americans have held on to that culture and identity.

Biden also talks about his fathers side who were also Irish, in fact he speaks a lot about his Irish heritage on his Fathers side, and he has many cousins in Co Mayo whom he visits each time he comes here

👏👏

Which is why it's so strange that so many British seem to be upset that Americans are proud of their ancestry. There is alot to unpack there!!

We were skiing in the US and one of the ski guides badges said he was from Glasgow. As I come from and live in Glasgow we stopped to speak to him.

He'd never been to Glasgow in his life. 🙈His mother had been born in Glasgow and moved to the US as a child.

Have to say I was a bit perplexed that someone would say they were from somewhere they had never been to.

It's only if you're white then it doesn't count. But of course if you're not white then you aren't American, or British or Australian or whatever. Then you'll be asked where you're really from. Go figure. 🤷‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏿‍♀️

Because they're probably not 🙄🤣 the ones that are, do. Plenty of Chinese Americans etc🤦‍♀️

It’s fine to be proud of your ancestry. It’s great. But it’s generally weird, for brits / English / welsh / Scots / Irish etc to say that your ancestry is more YOU than the actual place you are from, especially if you haven’t lived in that place or your direct parents haven’t lived in that place. And we note that some bits of ancestry are quoted a lot more than others - so it feels like it’s less about where you’re from and more about what bits of heritage feel interesting and sympathetic. And when people who are actually FROM that place find it hard to identity with your experience. Loads of brits etc have very mixed heritage which we’re happy to acknowledge and proud of - but we recognise we are no longer of that place if we have no direct connections there. Fine to be proud of it and I appreciate that there are immigrant community heritage traditions to be upheld, but please recognise this isn’t in any way the same as being actually from that place any more.

Also agree that it’s a clear sign of racism when eg black British people are asked “where are you REALLY from?” The asking of that question is a clear racist flag, an indication that the asker doesn’t see how someone who looks “other” can be from England / wales etc. We want people to be able to say they’re from Wales / England / Ireland etc if that’s where they grew up. So the insistence on heritage as more important than present place can feel jarring and somewhat racist to us.

Its the feeling of cultural appropriation, like they're approaching it as a fun quirky hobby or treating it like its a kind of star sign.

Theres a lot of history, conflict, real-world historical and current political and cultural issues and debates in every country and having an American turn up wearing a silly green shamrock hat loudly declaring they're Irish and yelling "Top O' the morning!" and thinking thats all that being Irish is is pretty insulting.

On that basis if thats how we're doing it, a lot of Americans are also slave-owners because they're descended from them, but I think they'd agree that actually that doesn't count because it was so long ago. You don't just get to pick all the marshmallows out of your historical cereal.

So how long before you aren't allowed to claim that part of your history? And why does this seem appear to apply if you are white? Another poster who made a reference to Obama, that somehow it was even more ridiculous for him to have Irish ancestry compared to other presidents even though of course he was half white. Who's not to say that he might be more Irish than a whiter president, he probably is. This is why I think there is alot to unpack. It's not so black and white, pardon the pun!

A pp makes a good point that Joe Biden was brought up in an Irish Catholic community, in the 50s. My DM was brought up in an Irish community around the same time, going to convents with Irish nuns, doing Irish dancing, with Irish relatives still around and feels similarly. Whereas for me my heritage is interesting to me (I was brought up catholic for example and that’s why) but I don’t feel Irish.

Oh

Well that's a very valid point. Someone can feel more of "something" if they are brought up with those traditions. For example you could have two Italian families, exact same backgrounds and both second generation British. If one has grown up speaking Italian, eating Italian food etc they probably would "feel" more Italian than the other who didn't have anything to do with that background, even though genetically they are the same. Same with a white family who immigrates to China! Identity can't be prescribed to you by someone else, like many posters on here seem to think.

People are going to experience these things differently. You are also generation away from your mothers experience.

I do feel the Irish identity is so much stronger in America because it is so far away. Those who left for America knew they would never go back home, never see the people and places they loved again. It must have been so hard.