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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Murderers' mothers are not to blame

121 replies

Zuyi · 14/04/2023 13:37

"once again you have that highly enabling mother and a child whose behaviours were overlooked time and time and time again and the mother just continuously makes every effort to protect this child even after it's abundantly clear that they have done the worst thing imaginable. "

This is from the most recent episode of the podcast Redhanded where they talk about murderers.

I just find it enfuriating that they keep blaming mothers. Do they really think that a bit more discipline from mothers early on would have been enough to cure violent psychopaths? And what should the mothers have done exactly?

AIBU mothers are not responsible for their adult son's crimes because of being too indulgent.

Or are they, and I'm somehow missing the power of mothers?

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 14/04/2023 13:40

The biggest UK killer of modern times, though never charged, is Boris Johnson. Would you blame his mother, or his wife-beating father? Or neither?

Agree mothers should not be blamed.

JamSandle · 14/04/2023 13:45

And somehow the father's are never blamed either.

swayingpalmtree · 14/04/2023 13:48

Having worked in forensic psychiatry, what I observed was that every person in that unit had an absolutely appalling childhood- marred by the most horrific abuse imaginable. So if you are asking, does a person's childhood affect how they turn out?- absolutely yes.

However, it doesnt then follow to say that everyone who has a rough childhood turns out to be a killer or violent because many people have had horrific childhoods and are empathic and kind people.

Therefore, what I conclude is that there are two factors to becoming someone who commits horrible crimes: 1. Genetic predisposition (eg. psychopaths literally have differently wired brains to the normal population that exhibit an abnormal empathic response and blunted emotional affect). 2. Environmental triggers- childhood abuse/violence etc

Put those two factors together and you have the perfect storm of dysfunction. Many sociopaths function very well in high positions such as doctors, lawyers, CEOs etc and they never commit crimes.

It doesnt surprise me that mothers are always blamed- look at how single mothers are stereotyped in our culture and yet when its a single dad he practically gets a medal for looking after his own kids.

CultureAlienationBoredomandDespair · 14/04/2023 13:49

I don’t think it’s mothers’ fault but there is certainly a correlation between a poor and abusive childhood and people who go on to kill. Recognising this isn’t a bad thing but both parents are equally to blame.

Toloveandtowork · 14/04/2023 13:52

It's highly convenient to blame the mother. Some people turn out bad, and I don't think mother's necessarily have the power to stop it.
It's a way of scapegoating women for the bad parts of human nature.

FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee · 14/04/2023 13:54

This podcast has really gone downhill.

JamSandle · 14/04/2023 13:54

Toloveandtowork · 14/04/2023 13:52

It's highly convenient to blame the mother. Some people turn out bad, and I don't think mother's necessarily have the power to stop it.
It's a way of scapegoating women for the bad parts of human nature.

Exactly this. At some point a human has accountability for their own actions.

Original poster
Zuyi · 14/04/2023 13:56

That makes sense - childhoods with abuse and neglect will have bad consequences. On this podcast though they're blaming mothers for being too indulgent and protective. The opposite.

But there may have been hidden abuse, I suppose. Or, those doctors and lawyers are better able to conceal their crimes.

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 14/04/2023 13:58

It is obviously multi-factorial

Mothers are in the mix but so are a million other things. There is never just one cause.

Greentree1 · 14/04/2023 14:02

I think I would feel extremely guilty if a child of mine committed deliberate murder. Parents, Mums and Dads have a huge influence on how children grow up, but we can only do our best and hope they grow up to be nice people. In the end the child has to become responsible for their own deeds good or bad.

Reugny · 14/04/2023 14:03

On this podcast though they're blaming mothers for being too indulgent and protective.

Well if they are blaming mothers for being too indulgent and protective they need to blame their fathers for not encouraging to them to push boundaries and take risks.

If they are doing to deal in stereotypes then it works both ways.

Ktime · 14/04/2023 14:05

“once again you have that highly enabling mother and a child whose behaviours were overlooked time and time and time again and the mother just continuously makes every effort to protect this child even after it's abundantly clear that they have done the worst thing imaginable. "

Not even an honourable mention to fathers who dump their kids, barely see them and pay minimal child maintenance?

swayingpalmtree · 14/04/2023 14:05

On this podcast though they're blaming mothers for being too indulgent and protective

Well thats just idiotic then- if every spoilt child grew up to be a murderer then none of us would be safe walking the streets!

sanityisamyth · 14/04/2023 14:05

My sister is a psychopath who spent much of my childhood torturing me. I hold my mother responsible for doing fuck all to stop her, and constantly left me alone from the age of 10 with someone who repeatedly tried to kill me and a 4 year old to protect.

She went on to be in prison for GBH (squirted of an unrelated GBH with intent that she was guilty of) and thrown out of the Navy for violence.

retrosteamband · 14/04/2023 14:07

Shitty parents definitely cause fucked up adult children. Let’s not forget “boys will be boys” culture - plenty of parents turn a blind eye to their rapey sons which in turn enables these men

Iris18 · 14/04/2023 14:07

It’s easy to believe because we need there to be clear cut signs and reasons for these things. I’m sure many have terrible childhoods but that’s just one factor.

I was friends with someone whose brother ended up murdering someone years later. They both had lovely parents and a great upbringing. I knew him as a child and would never have guessed he would be violent at all. The other sibling turned out exactly like you would have expected, marriage, lovely children.

Ktime · 14/04/2023 14:08

sanityisamyth · 14/04/2023 14:05

My sister is a psychopath who spent much of my childhood torturing me. I hold my mother responsible for doing fuck all to stop her, and constantly left me alone from the age of 10 with someone who repeatedly tried to kill me and a 4 year old to protect.

She went on to be in prison for GBH (squirted of an unrelated GBH with intent that she was guilty of) and thrown out of the Navy for violence.

Sorry she did that, I have a similar bullying sister I am NC with.

Was your dad around?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/04/2023 14:09

Was it the Gabby Petito episode? It wasn't their best - I didn't agree with their assessment that the Utah police should have done much more, or that it would have made any difference to a relationship that had been dragging on dysfunctionally for many years.

Original poster
Zuyi · 14/04/2023 14:21

Was it the Gabby Petito episode?

Yes. But it's not the first time they've gone after mothers. I suppose I'm a bit touchy about it as a protective, probably-too-permissive mother of sons

Not even an honourable mention to fathers who dump their kids, barely see them and pay minimal child maintenance?

Ha. No.

OP posts:
Original poster
Zuyi · 14/04/2023 14:25

sanityisamyth · 14/04/2023 14:05

My sister is a psychopath who spent much of my childhood torturing me. I hold my mother responsible for doing fuck all to stop her, and constantly left me alone from the age of 10 with someone who repeatedly tried to kill me and a 4 year old to protect.

She went on to be in prison for GBH (squirted of an unrelated GBH with intent that she was guilty of) and thrown out of the Navy for violence.

That must have been terrifying. I'm so sorry you had that.

OP posts:
Ktime · 14/04/2023 14:29

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/04/2023 14:09

Was it the Gabby Petito episode? It wasn't their best - I didn't agree with their assessment that the Utah police should have done much more, or that it would have made any difference to a relationship that had been dragging on dysfunctionally for many years.

I haven’t heard the podcast. Are you referring to the police cam video of the police talking to Petito and Laundrie? The Utah police behaved appallingly and misogynistically in that video.

sanityisamyth · 14/04/2023 17:24

@Ktime no he lived 150 miles away. She went to live with him when she was expelled her her second secondary school, but she caused him to have a heart attack and destroyed his career.

Original poster
Zuyi · 14/04/2023 20:37

You're right. I'm listening to old episodes now and they're so much better. Better researched, more engaging. No blaming mothers. They're actually really thoughtful feminists! What happened I wonder.

OP posts:
Original poster
Zuyi · 14/04/2023 20:38

FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee · 14/04/2023 13:54

This podcast has really gone downhill.

Sorry I meant to quote this

OP posts:
Krustykrabpizza · 14/04/2023 20:42

In this particular case Laundrie's parents behaved absolutely awfully and enabled his hideous behaviour. But it definitely wasn't just his mum

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