To think online sober community can be a bit pretentious?

[Elmo27]

I stopped drinking last year for 3.5 months after feeling I needed a break as it wasn’t serving me at that time. I’m by no means an alcoholic but more of a ‘grey area’ drinker and felt like I was starting to fancy a drink far too often, and on the odd occasion of drinking socially I often struggled to moderate and would end up with an awful hangovers and anxiety that lasted all week. So I stopped. I didn’t plan on stopping forever, I didn’t really know what my plan was I was just taking one day at a time.

I really threw myself into it and bought ‘quit lit’ and became a member of a new sober app and was really open and honest about my experience on there and received lots of support from other ex ‘grey drinkers’. I found it helpful at first, but as time went by, I started to feel pressure and like the environment was actually becoming accidentally a bit toxic, and I also started to find it quite difficult to imagine my life never being able to have a drink socially ever again. Long story short over Christmas I had a drink in moderation, and since then I’ve found I really have changed my relationship with alcohol. I am drinking again but only at the weekend and maybe 2 glasses of wine. Sometimes if I fancy a drink I still buy the AF beers some of which I love. When drinking socially I mix it up between soft drinks and alcoholic drinks and am so much more mindful - the break really did the trick.

However I’m now noticing the online sober community, as supportive as they may be when you’re sober are slightly condescending if you then decided to drink (albeit moderately) again. I spoke openly on the app about this (there are groups on there for tactical breakers and also ‘mostly’ sober people) but I felt like the general vibe from the comments was more one of pity and superiority. As if I hadn’t made a conscious choice to drink and it was a bit “we all make mistakes”. I’ve also noticed certain sober figures on Instagram who I follow saying things like “when you see a picture of someone all dressed up for a night out and you feel like you’re missing out, remember in a few hours they’ll be making a fool out of themselves and be throwing up in the toilet and will wake up hating life” and “moderating does NOT work!” And “if you drink alcohol your going to find reaching your goals so much harder than if you were alcohol free”. I feel a lot (not all) of the sober community seem to assume everyone who drinks is beneath them and they all perhaps do the same things they maybe did when they drank.

AIBU for thinking this sort of thing is really pretentious and judgmental? For the record I think anyone choosing to go completely AF is incredible whatever their reasons, and whether they had a big problem beforehand or not. I also understand that the sober community are really brilliant at supporting each other, but to those who have simply changed and improved their relationship with alcohol (but still do drink) does their support extend that far?

What are your thoughts?

I get what you mean but I suppose from their POV you’ve started drinking again. They may not be able to understand that you can now moderate because, let’s be fair, the majority of people can’t and they lie about it (oh it’s only 1 or 2, I can control myself now) I work in substance misuse and I can’t even count how many times I’ve heard that and it means relapse every single time.
im not saying you’ve relapsed but I can see why they’re skeptical.

they should still support you though!! So I get what you mean about the sanctimony.

I have experience of working with alcohol and drug addiction. And family experience of addiction. In my experience lots of former addicts need to be very into the sober life to convince themselves it works for them.

Also in my experience there's something very all or nothing wit addicts and they are often quite self involved. Both in the addiction and recovery. So are very prone to thinking their approach is the best. Addd to that recovery is a hard thing so they feel they want to shout about it.

So yes I get what you mean!

YABU

you are not sober so the sober community is not for you. Find a group or community that meets your aims better.I have been sober for over a year and a half and I have found the online groups and Instagrammers extremely helpful and not patronising at all. They don’t support moderation so why would they promote it? It could also cause harm to followers to see posts touting moderation.

and the point of these memes is they are exactly how many people addicted to alcohol will end up if they start trying to moderate

Club Soda on FB also includes mindful drinkers.

Why do you care?

You do you.

I understand what you’re saying. Like I say I think if you are sober they’re incredible, it’s just some people do appear very patronising in my opinion.

also to be clear, the app I was posting on wasn’t an AA type place (I never in a million years would post anything about moderation to anyone who identified as an alcoholic or an addict) but it was originally more marketed as a place for people who wanted to improve their relationship with drink - as I say there are groups for tactical breakers and people who are mostly sober. But I no longer feel that I’m able to post on there despite this.

It sounds as though it's just not the right community for you. Their objective is complete abstinence, yours is moderation. Both are valid, but they're too different to be compatible in an online community. Can you find a 'moderate' community? I think there's a moderation thread on here somewhere if that helps.

'Also in my experience there's something very all or nothing wit addicts and they are often quite self involved. Both in the addiction and recovery'

Yes, that's my experience too. Very extreme, and almost like they get their new 'high' from being sober and so it mustn't be questioned.

Like you OP, I was drinking too heavily a few years ago, had a break and then started drinking again in a much more mindful way. I'm very interested in health and fitness and I understand that ditching alcohol completely would be 'healthier', but I honestly do really enjoy it, and I only have one or two in one sitting these days

Maybe the online sober communities aren't the right place for you as you're not sober, and a mindful drinking group would be better. Well done though, it feels great to get control of any unhealthy habits!

'Why do you care?

You do you.'

Maybe because we're not robots and we have feelings about things and sometimes that gets messy. Life can't always be explained in cute little soundbites

I think dry alcoholics are equally as needy as wet alcoholics.

I also think sober support threads or sobberish groups are difficult to navigate, because each person has a different goal. The people with the more clear cut, strict goal, need more discipline and need to surround themselves with reinforced discipline than the people with a life blip that they need to reassess.

It's like clean eating fanatics and the scale from veganism to pescatarian to balanced meat eaters to junk food fanatics. The scale doesn't allow for easy support of middle ground personal goals.

Try and find a mindful group. I now only post on or follow totally sober groups or accounts. Not because I believe my way is the best or only way but because I know if I drink again it will lead to my life going to shit and probably my death.

Step away from the group, it's not meant for people like you. You've chosen to start drinking again, they think you're on the road to relapse, they aren't going to support you. I don't really see why you'd expect them to?

Thanks lottapianos well done to you as well! It does feel good to have more of a handle on it than before. I guess the difference is mindset and not having the FOMO I always did before. Now I know fun can be had without, but I also do enjoy 1 or 2. Not cocky enough to think I will never ever get drunk again but I know I can always stop again for a while if ever I feel it is getting out of hand.

it’s not that I ‘care’ as such I just wondered if it was just me. I guess I felt a conflicted with my thoughts on it all.

I do agree it does seem to be very extreme and self involved and have wondered before if this is a technique of sorts to keep themselves/followers on track. Which I guess does work.

I do agree another app maybe would be better as this one doesn’t seem to be what it was marketed as.

It can be difficult with some online communities, where you don't necessarily know the entire backstory of a member (though this can be a good thing). Groups could be made up of people like you, OP, with a more healthy mindset and consideration, and a range of others from those who felt that a mild flirtation with alcohol was becoming a worry and not what they wanted from life all the way to those who have suffered terrible, real and lasting harm from their own or others' drinking. It may be that these latter kinds of people are sounding dismissive or condescending because moderation-talk, or continuing to drink albeit at lower levels is something that they have said or heard many many times before from a person whose life did not end well.

Being and staying sober can be very very difficult, almost unbearable, for an addict or supporter. Sometimes that can make it very hard to engage patiently with someone who is still drinking, or spark worries that it will encourage them or other group members to fall back into old habits. Moderation is great but it's often a slippery slope for others for whom that sort of relationship with alcohol is no longer possible.

Maybe this isn't the right group for you. You could try a few others and see if there's one in which you feel more welcomed and supported.

Every good wish to you. x

This.

I follow someone famous on social media who has recently stopped drinking and I find them a bit like this and quite patronising.
I like your description of grey area though as i think I’ve been in this in the past and then through various life events found how to drink to moderation when the rhetoric is often you either drink or you don’t

It might not be that they are judging you, but don't want to fall into a trap of thinking they could just have one or two, so don't won't to read or engage fully into something which could encourage them to leave their sober life behind.

Like for me, if someone says 'oh one chocolate won't hurt', okay maybe it won't hurt you, but I'd end up eating the whole box and wanting chocolate every day and would have to break that sugar addiction again. So I would rather not be exposed to people talking about the joys of cake and treats all the time and wouldn't encourage those conversations. Some things can be very dangerous to others, which is why some people are addicts and some people aren't.

To summarise, they're probably trying to shut you down because it's harmful for them to hear about drinking.

I imagine if drinking used to be a significant aspect of your life and identity because you were “a drinker”, and then it’s removed, you have to find something else to fill that gap in who you are and what you do. For some people, sobriety thus becomes a core aspect of their identity and how they relate to people. Whereas if you never identified that way in the first place and just decided to moderate your drinking or abstain for a bit to see if your well-being improved, you’re not going to experience sobriety as a defining feature of who you are in the same way.

YANBU, my ex is now a recovering alcoholic and like others I have met they are the most condescending bunch. Full props to anyone with a drinking problem who gets a hold
of it, I’ve seen and been hurt by the utter destruction it leaves but they are a group you cannot be a part of if you don’t belong (which you do not evidently)

lots of addiction gets replaced with another. Sobriety is praised and protected so highly for the alcoholic, part of it is having to convince yourself every single day that you won’t drink. So they have to believe in the system, and part of that is to remind themselves how hellish booze is. It’s how they stay sober.

but from the outside looking in it’s not attractive and really patronising and self righteous. They come across almost holy and better than the rest looking down on the capacity to drink in moderation like we’re the ones being tricked.

Not Dr Alex is it.

It sounds as if there are a lot of people in this group (or perhaps a few very vocal people) who started out thinking that moderation was the answer and then realised the hard way that it wouldn't work for them, or saw it fail disastrously for other people they knew. That's changed the nature of the group.

If you think you still want support with your moderation policy then you'll need to find a more well-established moderation-based group that is less less likely to shift focus over time.

YANBU.

I find it really odd when people who claim they stopped drinking for health benefits (and not because they had any sort of problem) then go on some sort of full-on sobriety cult kick where they won’t stop going on about it.

I mean, I’m not constantly thinking/going on about having a drink, so why are they seemingly thinking about not drinking all the time?

Maybe they did have a drinking problem after all.

Having lost my mum, stepdad, two uncles and an aunt to alcoholism and having had to watch the horrid battle they went through with booze, the worst days in their sobriety journey were the times when they started to believe that they could start to drink in moderation again. The story always ended the same way and eventually lead to an early grave. As others have said, moderate drinkers can be one of the biggest triggers to alcoholics. An alcoholics life depends on their sobriety, that's why many cling on to it so fiercely.

Alcoholism is a horrible horrible thing and hats off to anyone who can stay sober, nothing condescending or pretentious about not wanting moderate drinkers in their circles.

Well done OP, you have found the golden spot where you can moderate an addiction! I have a friend who is an alcoholic and I wish he could get there as the 100% sober life isn't for him.
I'd back off from the community as it isn't for you anymore. A part of them maybe resents that you are able to drink and control it.

@Brilop it is! Not just me who thinks that then…