To think online sober community can be a bit pretentious?

[Elmo27]

I stopped drinking last year for 3.5 months after feeling I needed a break as it wasn’t serving me at that time. I’m by no means an alcoholic but more of a ‘grey area’ drinker and felt like I was starting to fancy a drink far too often, and on the odd occasion of drinking socially I often struggled to moderate and would end up with an awful hangovers and anxiety that lasted all week. So I stopped. I didn’t plan on stopping forever, I didn’t really know what my plan was I was just taking one day at a time.

I really threw myself into it and bought ‘quit lit’ and became a member of a new sober app and was really open and honest about my experience on there and received lots of support from other ex ‘grey drinkers’. I found it helpful at first, but as time went by, I started to feel pressure and like the environment was actually becoming accidentally a bit toxic, and I also started to find it quite difficult to imagine my life never being able to have a drink socially ever again. Long story short over Christmas I had a drink in moderation, and since then I’ve found I really have changed my relationship with alcohol. I am drinking again but only at the weekend and maybe 2 glasses of wine. Sometimes if I fancy a drink I still buy the AF beers some of which I love. When drinking socially I mix it up between soft drinks and alcoholic drinks and am so much more mindful - the break really did the trick.

However I’m now noticing the online sober community, as supportive as they may be when you’re sober are slightly condescending if you then decided to drink (albeit moderately) again. I spoke openly on the app about this (there are groups on there for tactical breakers and also ‘mostly’ sober people) but I felt like the general vibe from the comments was more one of pity and superiority. As if I hadn’t made a conscious choice to drink and it was a bit “we all make mistakes”. I’ve also noticed certain sober figures on Instagram who I follow saying things like “when you see a picture of someone all dressed up for a night out and you feel like you’re missing out, remember in a few hours they’ll be making a fool out of themselves and be throwing up in the toilet and will wake up hating life” and “moderating does NOT work!” And “if you drink alcohol your going to find reaching your goals so much harder than if you were alcohol free”. I feel a lot (not all) of the sober community seem to assume everyone who drinks is beneath them and they all perhaps do the same things they maybe did when they drank.

AIBU for thinking this sort of thing is really pretentious and judgmental? For the record I think anyone choosing to go completely AF is incredible whatever their reasons, and whether they had a big problem beforehand or not. I also understand that the sober community are really brilliant at supporting each other, but to those who have simply changed and improved their relationship with alcohol (but still do drink) does their support extend that far?

What are your thoughts?

I’ve seen it a LOT on here, where anyone who drinks, at all, must be “falling over drunk”, making a fool of themselves, waking up hungover every day, embarrassing their kids etc. Some people can’t conceive of a moderate drinker. Also, some people can’t drink moderately. But others can. Funny old world.

Blimey, lot of preconceptions and judgments about sober people/people recovered from alcohol use disorder on here! To be fair I was probably guilty of some of them myself before I binned off the booze.

I don't get why not drinking has to be a Big Important Thing, or why you'd care so much.

When I first stopped drinking I'd dip in and out of the so-called "sober community" but quickly realised it wasn't for me - mainly because I was still me, but just a not-drinking me.

I didn't find the need to give myself a badge and start identifying myself through my sobriety... much like I quietly don't eat meat without harping on about being "plant based", and when the kids were small I just carried them in a sling without needing to identify myself as a "babywearer."

There's an increasing modern obsession with making our choices into a Thing that defines us, rather than just one aspect of our lives.

Still, the "sober community" are still marginally less annoying than the "wine o clock" lot and their endless reels of clicking Prosecco glasses (hashtag making memories, hashtag girls night out, hashtag YOLO), so that's one thing eh.

I know it's not quite the same but when I quit smoking I had to alter my thinking so I considered it was complety disgusting!

Although I never vocalised it I rememebr looking at people thinking "Ergh, how could you possibly take that disgusting stuff into your lungs" despite the fact I had been doing it myself days before! I knew I was a huge hypocrite, but I also knew it's what I needed to do to finaly quit. So maybe there's a element of that going on?

My guess would be they are not being honest with themselves and are calling themselves “grey area” but are actually alcoholics and know that they couldn’t just have one drink so choose to stay away entirely. They make themselves feel better by only admitting half way they have a problem.

A lot of people who call themselves “grey area” drinkers are bottle of wine a day types! Same as I was before I quit. Not a grey area in my book!

I get what you mean op. I still loiter on these type of groups from when I quit booze for a while and I do eye roll a bit from time to time at the sanctimony. But I agree with pp who said some people have to totally rally against something in order to quit it for good. I think it's best to step away from the community so that they don't annoy you or vice versa.

I think people who have managed to get sober deserve all the admiration in the world. Moderating your drinking means nothing really, I mean you are still drinking. Who can blame them for feeling exasperated if drinkers are on a sober forum?

For the record I haven’t posted on this group at all since January (and I didn’t intend on doing it), I’ve just had a look at some of the posts. It’s not that I was complaining about not having a community to post on to support me, it was more just a general wondering about lots of posts in general on the app I mentioned and other forms of social media. I mainly just wondered if it was just me who felt this way about the judginess or if I was being unfair. I’m not really asking for advice about what to do about it.

Find it a bit odd when people ask “why do you care?”. Why does anyone care about anything?

This!

It’s similar to those who quit smoking to be honest.

Theres the odd person who still misses it and wishes they could have “the odd one “ but most of us ex smokers are notorious for being rabid about it! I’m the same about alcohol, although I don’t talk to drinking friends about it as it’s none of my business and it doesn’t impact me if they’re drinking. I’m not remotely tempted.

I feel really sorry for anyone still wasting their money on fags or booze. I don’t ever mention it to friends, but if I were posting on a sober forum then yeah, you would surely expect to read plenty of that? I don’t quite understand why you are surprised?

You need to give Adrian Chiles a call. He is one committed "mindful" drinker now and his decision/experience of this is well documented.

I get the feeling that he may trigger a lot of now sober people into thinking that well, if it works for him it will work for me. But he does appear to have moderated his intake and there is a documentary about him somewhere online/playback or something.

I think people who have given up drinking completely deserve all the admiration in the world too. As I said in my OP I think they’re incredible! My post wasn’t about talking down about anyone who has given up whatsoever - I honestly think it’s amazing.
the app I posted on was supposed to be about improving your relationship with alcohol whatever that means. It wasn’t strictly marketed as being abstinent.
my post wasn’t about their responses to me and that I was surprised about it, it was about the general attitudes of the online sober community having a superior attitude, and their particular responses was one example of it.

Don't think I would agree that it’s “wasting money”! Surely a large part of life is enjoying sensory pleasures?

If you are able to have a healthy relationship with alcohol (just as if you are able to have a healthy attitude towards fat, salt, sugar, fizzy drinks etc) then life (to my mind) is that much more enjoyable.

Certainly not a waste of money.

YANBU I used to follow someone on Instagram (used to style herself as a scummy mummy type) but she’s alcohol free now and become a gym goer (fair enough) but I had to unfollow after she posted that she was at the gym bright & early and fresh-faced on Easter Sunday. I’m all for taking your health seriously (I lost 2 stone and started running in the last 12 months) but it’s the smugness of posting a pic to let us all know that we’re eating chocolate Easter eggs and she’s working out at 6am that was enough for me to hit the unfollow button.

It’s like anything that people can get preachy about. Fine if works for you. But that doesn’t make you better than the rest of us.

I do understand where you're coming from and clearly if you're an addict you need to totally reset your approach to it and be quite all or nothing and the "superiority" maybe is a way of reinforcing the idea that you're not missing out.

But it does seem a shame that "grey drinkers" (and I hadn't heard that term but its very apt) can't be supported too.

Alcohol abuse is a huge problem throughout society but it seems a shame that people who aren't in the throes of full-blooded addiction but know they need to find a middle ground can't benefit from support from this.

I would historically have called myself a "grey drinker" (now I know what it means). Never been an alcoholic or anywhere approaching physical dependency but I've definitely gone through periods of drinking far more than was healthy. I would have really appreciated something like this.

Absolutely agree that there should be groups/support for grey area drinkers looking for moderation- I think there are though?

OP doesn’t have an addiction. You cannot moderate addiction.

OP was a heavy user who needed a break

OP - I’m not sure what to expected going to a sober community and telling them you’re drinking again? Obviously that community just isn’t for you any more.

I’m glad you said alcoholic OR approaching physical dependency. Most alcoholics aren’t physically dependent.

@TooOldForThisNonsense

Absolutely agree that there should be groups/support for grey area drinkers looking for moderation- I think there are though?

Maybe there are? I've not come across them (no need for them now really as I barely drink).

I do think the priority has to go to those who need support with total abstinence but I think for grey drinkers that might be a bit off-putting. There is a huge swath of people throughout this country who fall way short of needing to stop drinking alcohol forever (and for whom the language of total abstinence is probably a bit daunting) but could use support from other like minded people seeking to moderate.

You’ve seen nothing until you’ve been on the ex-drinker’s, ex-smokers and vegans hen do.
It’s a fucking riot.

Thepeopleversuswork · Today 18:51
@TooOldForThisNonsense

Absolutely agree that there should be groups/support for grey area drinkers looking for moderation- I think there are though?

Maybe there are? I've not come across them (no need for them now really as I barely drink).

I do think the priority has to go to those who need support with total abstinence but I think for grey drinkers that might be a bit off-putting. There is a huge swath of people throughout this country who fall way short of needing to stop drinking alcohol forever (and for whom the language of total abstinence is probably a bit daunting) but could use support from other like minded people seeking to moderate.

This is my point. Lots of posters saying “why would you go on a sober forum and tell them you’re drinking” but as I’ve said a few times now - this particular app was supposedly originally designed for ‘grey area’ drinkers, or people who are already sober, sober curious, just wanting a break, or wanting to quit for good - for whatever reason. It is not AA (or wasn’t supposed to be). But it feels like anyone who considers drinking or drinks occasionally on there is still met with the pity comments or the the scepticism. It’s like the original idea of the app to include everyone hasn’t taken off, and it’s the best way is completely AF or you’re not really accepted, I certainly don’t feel welcome anymore despite there being literal groups for this exact subject on there. It isn’t just about this app, it’s about sober figures online talking down about everyone who drinks, putting all drinkers under one umbrella and looking down on them.

I do agree though that if you’re trying to stay sober for a lot of people you do need to remind yourself of the horrors of it. I was guilty of it myself when I stopped. I think it’s brilliant to be mindful and I now have a different mindset as I’m better educated about it. I do think a large part of it is to keep themselves sober, but I must admit since I started drinking again seeing posts like this pop up on my feed has made me guilty and as if I have failed - even though I know I wasn’t an addict, and my relationship with alcohol has definitely improved greatly.

I can't equate with alcohol, OP, but I can with smoking. There are people who smoke all the time, don't smoke many, or can take it or leave it - and there are people who don't smoke at all. Whether they were ever smokers or not, they do not smoke and don't accept people who smoke as being a smoker-lite, or smoke-free-curious or whatever the buzz word is currently.

People who drink and don't have a problem with their alcohol intake are not going to understand you - nor will people who don't drink. Neither of those two 'groups' has to think about alcohol at all where as you do and always will have to, unfortunately.

My personal view is that if a person has determined that they have a problem with alcohol, there is no cutting down, there is only stopping completely.

Best of luck to you, addiction is hard.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I agree that it may always have to be something I am mindful about. I’m not cocky enough to think I’ve got it all figured out forever more.

But I disagree in part that the only way is stopping completely if you’ve ever considered yourself to have a ‘problem’. One persons problem isn’t the same as another’s. My drink intake to begin with was probably considered ‘normal’ for most. When I stopped people didn’t get why. But I’m 5”2 and very petite, get drunk quickly, suffer terribly with hangovers and anxiety after drinking an amount which other people wouldn’t think twice about (a bottle of wine in one sitting would probably have me puking) so I rarely ever drank ‘too much’ in one go for fear of this, but on social occasions, I’d find it much harder to recognise my limits until it was too late. And I found I was turning to 1 or 2 wines too often after having a shit day - basically drinking for the wrong reasons. My mindset has changed now after having a break from it. So I don’t fully agree that stopping completely is the only way for everyone - it depends on the severity of the problem. I certainly wasn’t an addict, and I sympathise completely with anyone who is - and full credit to anyone who has managed to get a handle on an addiction of any kind.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe - did you deliberately post that “I’m sorry you’re still struggling with your addiction OP” response as an example of the sort of condescending, sanctimonious attitude the OP was talking about?

If so, bravo - nicely done!