Jeremy Vine - people are morally obliged to downsize and free up property

[JoanThursday1972]

Currently have this on the radio. Suggestion is that people are not entitled to remain in and live in the house that they have bought and paid for. That they should downsize and free this up for more deserving occupants, ie families.

This is surely a personal choice and not an obligation? Anyone is entitled to live in a house they have bought, regardless of size.

I have always thought Jeremy is a twat, this, and his awful cycling videos where the cyclist is king always, just reinforce it to me

It's so interesting the way a discussion on 'Should people do this?' always instantly becomes 'Should people be forced to do this/have the right not to?'

In a similar way to 'should people use such and such offensive word/is it a good thing to do?' always becomes 'should people have freedom of speech?'

Impossible to keep a moral discussion just that. I'm not religious but part of the appeal might be a space to actually have conversations about morality that don;t instantly turn to people stamping their feet and shouting 'I know my rights!'.

They should extend the bedroom tax to all tenures to facilitate downsizing (but allow all tenures to have one extra bedroom). This would free up space for lodgers renters etc and help stop 2nd homes and provide housing for refugees.

OTOH I would like to downsize but the housing market has gone pearshaped for large properties at the moment

Yes, part of the problem is that too many British people think of apartment living as second rate and only what you do if you can’t afford a house. Because of this, and because land is expensive in the UK, developers build mostly houses, and because of land scarcity this results in undersized, boxy homes with often almost completely uselessly sized gardens and no storage space - not much good for young families.

We could build solid, spacious, soundprooofed, generously proportioned apartment blocks - for people of all ages and family sizes - with communal garden and play areas, laundries, gyms, work spaces and other services, as is more the norm and popular in many other cities around the world. It would be a much more effective use of land and home footprints could be much bigger - suiting families but with facilities also suiting people at all life stages.

Absolutely. And while we're at it, all young single people without children should give up their flats and move back in with their parents until they find a partner, freeing up homes for couples.
And all families with two same sex children should move to two bed houses, so those with children if both sexes can have the three bed places.
And everyone with a large garden should have all but a small lawn compulsorily purchased for development.
And everyone living in a large detached property should be made to move out so the house can be divided up into two semis at least, but preferably a HMO.

There is an argument for this I guess. Maybe stamp duty exemption if you downsize?

I disagree that someone in council housing should have to downsize if their dependents move out for example. It's their home and they have likely spent a lot of money on it. Give them the option to downsize but no one should be forced.

We own our own four bed two bath home
We are both mid 50s children married and have own homes.
We've looked at downsizing a little - but we can't afford the costs - we would be throwing money away.

We're a family squeezed into a 55sqm 2 bed. That's cool. Whatever. It's all we could afford on our household income

Next door single lady on her own. In her 70s. In a 4 bed. She bought the house for £13,000 back in the day. She brags quite often.

She shouldn't feel obliged to downsize however it would be nice if she would show gratitude instead of constantly whining about the NHS and how teaching is shit these days (not my opinion. This is her and similarly aged grandparents opinion - they complain about the strikes constantly)

In fact, she teamed up with her friends (similarly aged) and sent out a village wide newsletter complaining about junior doctors and teachers.

It's bewildering.

Small village next to a large town in the SW. Not a rich area or anything

Excellent plan, @ClaraThePigeon

And once they've done that, maybe they could build dormitory accommodation somewhere near Westminster for MPs, so that all those second homes that are being paid for out of our taxes can be sold or used for housing homeless people.

Social housing renters yes

Owner occupiers no they earned the right to live in their home

He's hosting the debate on the matter not suggesting it himself. It's the whole point of his show!

I don't think people should be forced to sell up. But as someone who works for Adult Social Care I wish more people would think about the practicalities of staying in a large house in the middle of nowhere that costs a small fortune to heat well into their old age.

It's not him saying it. He's just discussing it on the radio. He talks about all sorts of things, doesn't mean he thinks they're all a good idea!

Kirsty Allsopp has said people who downsize shouldn't have to pay stamp duty. That's why he was discussing it.

They could help this by removing stamp duty to downsize. I have a five bedroomed house that I’d like to downsize

I think he's got a point. Obviously no one should be forced to move, it has to be a personal choice, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to have 2/3/4 bedrooms that are never used while there's a housing shortage.

There is a housing crisis.

Everyone below Birmingham who is not in gainful employment or studying - elderly, retired, unemployed - has a moral obligation to move up north so that houses are freed up within commuting distance of London and the South East, where most tax revenue is created.

- with communal garden and play areas, laundries, gyms, work spaces and other services, as is more the norm

l would hate to live like this. I want my privacy.

OTOH I would like to downsize but the housing market has gone pearshaped for large properties at the moment

Do you think it will improve? There's a theory that there will be a glut of larger properties on the market in the future as the generation that owes them starts to die/need care. Add in the cost of building work, energy costs etc. I'm not sure i agree with the theory but can't see the interest rates of near zero again for some time.

Old people will die eventually so all you do is bring forward that housing stock coming onto the market and you can only make that leap forward once - you will still be short of homes, you are just shuffling a few people around

Personally I don't want any OAP being forced to move into an unsuitable home - most small homes out way have steep stairs and a downstairs loo ( rows and rows of 2 up 2 down terraces)

And if they downsize fully then the starter homes are now full of OAPs so the first time buyer is shafted

I sometimes think this about my parents. They own a 4 bed house with a huge front and back garden, on the street opposite one of the best schools in the town. She constantly complains that the house is too big for her to manage and that she can't cope with the garden as there's just the 2 of them there. It would make so much sense if they sold it, especially as they'd get loads for it. Someone with a family would have a much better use for it. I would understand if they loved it and it was their dream house, but all she does is moan about it

Problem is not downsizing( when you don’t need the space), the problem lies with all the landlords who own multiple properties hence pushing the property demand up therefore the prices making it unavailable and unfordable for many families forcing them to rent. Same goes for people own more than one home when they clearly live in one property. No one with a decent income should be forced to rent when they could own a home.

Dh’s nd I want to do this! However we can’t find anything we like and have been looking for ages. We love our home but could free up a lot of money by downsizing, which we want to do (to help our Dc) but there’s no way we’re moving to a house we don’t like.
We’re only late 50s so “retirement properties” are not suitable, we want a new build 2 with a medium sized garden. Find us one and we will move!!

The discussion was balanced, yes, but the inflammatory introduction to the debate was, well, just that.

Any housing redistribution should start from the top. Royal palaces could be repurposed into spacious flats, and many more buildings could be constructed on the extensive grounds.

Then we move onto single-family homes with more than 5 bedrooms and fewer than 4 fulltime occupants.

And so on, in decreasing order of size/occupancy, constantly adding good-quality homes as we go. The cost/unit will drop as supply meets demand.

I think we'll have dealt with the housing shortage long before we turf Grandma out of her 3-bed semi.