Jeremy Vine - people are morally obliged to downsize and free up property

[JoanThursday1972]

Currently have this on the radio. Suggestion is that people are not entitled to remain in and live in the house that they have bought and paid for. That they should downsize and free this up for more deserving occupants, ie families.

This is surely a personal choice and not an obligation? Anyone is entitled to live in a house they have bought, regardless of size.

It does need investigating and regulating. I think scandal is a good word.

My mum has moved into a retirement flat that isnt mccarthy stone. It is a lovely flat, in a lovely location which she couldnt have afforded if it wasnt a retirement flat. Others in the block do seem to sell. It has emergency pull cords in each room and someone else does the grounds, roof and foundations which is what she wanted.

It probably has meant i will inherit less, but i would rather she was comfortable now to be honest without the stress of maintaining a property and being able to afford a cleaner.

Thats lucky your mum found somewhere decent Spendonsend.

You're right, of course. People should just not have children, because that's the answer to older people hogging resources. It's not like our aging population is reliant on the following ones in a grand Ponzi scheme. They'll be just fine all alone in the houses they paid for.

McCarthy Stone are horrific and disgraceful - and also farcical and hilarious at the same time. The prices of their 'senior person' flats are absolutely ludicrous to the nth degree. In the same area you buy one of their 1 or 2 bed 'flats' (in their blocks,) you can get 1 and 2-bedroom flats for half the price. (Even less!)

On the Facebook page of the towns where these flats are for sale, you have a few people warning middle-aged people to not let their relatives over 65 buy these places. (Not everyone is on facebook.) And they warn the over 65s as well in case they ARE on facebook. Because you will pay £250,000 to £400,000 for one of these shitholes, and you're basically throwing your money away, and completely and utterly robbing your adult children and grandchildren of their inheritance. Because they will not be able to sell it, and will probably end up selling it for 80 grand or thereabouts. If you choose to RENT, you could be paying £3000 to £4000 a MONTH rent!

I think buying something like this is a dreadful idea. I don't know anyone personally who has bought one. Obviously SOME people buy them, and whoever it is has more money than sense, but I don't know anyone who has. I also agree with a pp that lots of the flats are left, as they are struggling to sell them.

My friend, who is in her late 50s, lives in a small-ish but 'adequate for their needs' bungalow ... It's absolutely perfect for her and her DH, as it has 2 bedrooms, a level access shower, storage space, a large attic, an 8 X 10 ft shed, a garage, and a quarter acre of garden, as it's a big end plot. They must have had (in the last two years,) about 20 to 25 leaflets trying to push one of these hideous McCarthy Stone monstrosities on them. (As have many of the people in bungalows in their village...)

Why the FUCK they think anyone would swap their lovely little bungalow - with no mortgage - for one of those shitty boxes just beggars belief. What they don't tell you, is that with many McCarthy Stone buildings, you're often right next to a main A road right next to a supermarket, and lots of shops, and car showrooms, and industrial estates, and about 5 to 10 minutes walk away from a bunch of pubs with yobs running around all night. Here's just three of the developments. The prices are eyewatering.

Retirement Homes for sale/rent in Staffordshire | Stowe Place | McCarthy Stone (mccarthyandstone.co.uk)

Retirement Homes for sale in Cheshire | Kings Scholars Court | McCarthy Stone (mccarthyandstone.co.uk)

Retirement Homes for sale/rent in Shropshire | Joules Place | McCarthy Stone (mccarthyandstone.co.uk)

My friend (who has the bungalow,) actually lives in little village, only a 25 minute walk into town, through short cuts/country pathways. (or 10 minute bike ride.) A close and friendly community, a little shop, a Church, a Parish Hall, a pub, 5 or 6 community groups, and lots of Woodlands around them. The bungalow is already paid for, and they have got a wonderful community there and they love it. Like hell are they going to give it up for a little massively overpriced shithole in an ugly newbuild block of flats like this!

And some people wonder why people won't sell up and move from the home they know and love? LOL. Get real! So much bitterness and jealousy and prejudice towards people over 60 on this thread. It's sickening.

Re avoiding care home fees, one aspect people so often ignore (or it just doesn’t occur to them) is that it’s something of a luxury to be able to self-fund, rather than being at the mercy of social services, who will typically (and understandably, given the cost) put off moving someone into residential care until relatives doing their best to care are on their knees with stress and exhaustion - this will often particularly apply when dementia is involved.

If self-funding, you can choose the time and place.

In this family we’ve had two self funders - my DM and my FiL, and (admittedly after looking at a lot) found very good care homes for both. And they were by no means the most expensive. From experience, it’s a myth that most expensive = best. The very swish-looking and expensive one where an old aunt of dh put herself for a month while her help was away, was a horrible place, she hated it. As I saw for myself when visiting her twice, staff were surly and miserable.

Also from experience, ‘Homes and Gardens’ decor is usually there to impress relatives who are choosing. Cosy and homely, with cheerful staff, are IMO infinitely more important.

I'll go without the care from those who despise older people anyway, and keep my house instead.

Obviously SOMEpeople buy them, and whoever it is has more money than sense, but I don't know anyone who has

I know one person who has. Family members took the decision out of the older relatives hands and made arrangements to sell up their property whilst they were in hospital and replace it with a McCarthy and stone flat. The older person never got over it, now they spend their life really miserable and waiting to die.

Well actually I genuinely think the links to those properties look nice but whatever. I reckon right now at age 39 I'd be happy to live in one of those flats if I lived alone. Can't comment on the cost though because I don't know what things cost in those neighborhoods. It did look pretty expensive. In no way would I describe any of them as a "shithole".
And nobody has said anyone has to sell their homes. But seriously you think it's ok to tell younger people to not have kids? I really think you need to listen to yourself.

What a cunty ageist comment.

They are a huge rip off, designed to strip older people of their savings. Yes they're nice flats. But not worth the money. A bit of a gilded cage.

Why would anyone give up their property for that. People are mad if they expect them to. I'll be hanging on to my house until the very end.

At the moment, the only person who gets a say on what to do with their house is the person who owns it. Not the person who desires what someone else owns. If people want kids, it's better that they find the housing to accommodate that first. Rather than coming on to Mumsnet and complaining about the 'selfish boomers' who won't get out of the way for them.

No, there is not an argument for that! How do you define a spare room?
Why not have a go at those who live in, using your example, a 2-bed house, yet decide to have another child? Why should someone who has worked all their life to get the house they are in (at whatever age) to accommodate them?
And how do you define 'elderly?

Well obviously there is an argument for it or people wouldn't be arguing about it. Nobody is forced to do anything. If you own a house then it's yours obviously, but if you have say 5 bedrooms and only use 1 of them, then obviously it must cross your mind that you have way more than you need, a smaller place would be better for you and your current house would suit a family who are living in a tiny house more. Whether you decide to act on that is up to you but you can't possibly say it's not true.

Well yes, what about the moral obligation to not have more children than you can afford to comfortably house.

Or the Earth can reasonably house for that matter...

Of course you can buy a big house to store your greed that you don't actually need, while families suffer from a shortage of housing stock. Just as people can create food waste while others starve

Is it morally right to birth more humans into an already overcrowded world and where the Earth's resources can barely support them?

And once you have birthed them will you not buy unneeded crap, have more cars than you need, use public transport where you can, recycle, hand down all clothes and have a bare minimum of holidays involving flying?

I bet you won't.

Well we could all stop having children I guess. I mean it would be the end of the human race and there'd be nobody who would pay for our pensions when (if) we get to retirement. I suppose to sell that to the current workers they'd have to massively lower taxes, stop paying the pensions of the currently retired, so that all younger people can put that money away for their own retirement. I'm not sure that's a great idea for any of us though?

People do seem to be forgetting though that big 4 and 5 bed houses in good areas are expensive and hence more likely to be bought again by an over 50s couple who have inherited or sold a business- not necessarily a younger family

Well obviously there is an argument for it or people wouldn't be arguing about it.

I suppose there's an argument from those who want what isn't theirs. Not much of an argument though when they have no say on what other people do with their property. So a weak bargaining position. I certainly wouldnt be giving up my house, along with its extra bedrooms and downsizing to some shitty retirement flat.

Can we stop moralising and trying to villainise everyone involved?

There is a structural issue in housing and trying to make out that older people who are own houses that were the right size as they brought up their families and may now be bigger than they need are selfish and immoral is not helpful. Neither is branding people as feckless for having children without being able to give them all a bedroom each.

Sniping at each other doesn’t help and distracts attention from what the problem actually is.

I don't care much about the end of the human race tbh.

Although putting that money away for their own retirement? How will that work then? They won't have had kids to keep the population / workforce going anyway if they don't get the housing they desire from older people right? So it would be a bit pointless.

Perhaps whilst you're deciding to withhold pension money, we should all demand our money back that goes on education, shoddy services, a broken NHS, universal credit and spend it on ourselves. No?
A bit of a silly argument really eh.

I'm not actually suggesting we withhold anyone's pension money if you read my post. Just pointing out what a ridiculous suggestion it is that young people should stop having kids if they don't want to live in overcrowded housing. Hope you're enjoying all your bedrooms you use to house your cat / your sewing machine / jigsaw puzzles.

This.

Yeah l love my sewing room. Dd is doing Textiles. She’s in it all the time.

Why should l move out of my house that I’ve paid for.? I’ve waited 35 years to have a sewing room.

I wish we could, but villanising people seems very popular on MN.

Oh I do love having all this extra space and a big garden to go with it 👍

Hope you're enjoying all your bedrooms you use to house your cat / your sewing machine / jigsaw puzzles.

I love them! And my big garden. Although semi-rural, there are some good schools near me too. I won't be moving anytime to the bedsit that those who want big houses to fill with plastic kiddie crap think I should relocate to :)