Page 18 | Jeremy Vine - people are morally obliged to downsize and free up property

JoanThursday1972 · 2023-04-14T11:17:50+00:00

Currently have this on the radio. Suggestion is that people are not entitled to remain in and live in the house that they have bought and paid for. That they should downsize and free this up for more deserving occupants, ie families. This is surely a personal choice and not an obligation? Anyone is entitled to live in a house they have bought, regardless of size.

DuesExMachina · 15/04/2023 10:14

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 15/04/2023 09:40

How big is Jeremy Vine’s house, and is he planning on downsizing?

The fact is, unless it’s a 5+ bedroom job with morning room and Hyacinth Bucket’s ‘room for a pony’, most ordinary family homes with 3 or 4 bedrooms and ordinary sized gardens, are not too big or unmanageable for older couples, or much too expensive to heat. They are not ‘rattling around’ in them. And if where they live is anywhere like around here, there’s hardly anything just bit smaller that doesn’t cost nearly as much - so it’s just not worth all the monumental hassle and expense of moving.

Moving to a cheaper area may well make it worth it, but many people wouldn’t want to.

I do know a couple who had such a substantial house for 30 odd years, and did eventually downsize, but the house took ages to sell, for the simple reason that prices had shot up so much, far fewer of the sort of families who’d have been able to afford it 30 odd years ago, could even even think of it.

Whoooooosh!!!'n

Limboingnow · 15/04/2023 10:14

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 15/04/2023 09:40

Yes, the idea of someone having to leave a large property they have worked hard on and love doesn't seem fair. But neither is it fair that a family with hard working parents can't afford a house where they are not all on top of each other. A sensible balance needs to be found. At the moment we have a massive wealth divide based on the luck of your generation.

No, it's not fair and not the problem of the person in the larger house. I live in a one bedroom maisonette so wouldn't be affected by this but if I was, I would only downsize if I wanted/needed to, not for the benefit of a random family I don't know.

When my Dad died Mum stayed in their home, it was an extended two bed semi so nothing over the top. Her brother asked her when she was going to move as she was 'rattling around' on her own! Had she moved where was she supposed to go? She'd have had to have given up her pets and her garden for a start. Moved away from where she'd lived 50 odd years as house prices are so ridiculous here. Instead she had a stair lift fitted and made the house more suitable as it was. Would she have been better in a smaller, single floor property? Physically yes, mentally no.

It's a problem for the person in a larger house if there aren't enough NHS workers if they are sick, they have to pay huge costs for repairs as their aren't enough plumbers and roofers, they get burgled as there aren't enough social workers and policemen and we get short of food as there aren't enough agricultural workers

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/04/2023 10:15

memoriesofamiga · Yesterday 12:20
Haha good one, try getting boomers to do that 😂”

We’re boomers. Can’t wait to leave the big family home and move into our flat 🤷‍♀️

proppy · 15/04/2023 10:18

It's a problem for the person in a larger house if there aren't enough NHS workers if they are sick,

This is a really good point. I can't see healthcare or social workers happy to work years, struggling to afford everything & working to protect other people inheritances being happy about the situation. More & more will just emigrate like doctors are doing.

Blossomtoes · 15/04/2023 10:19

proppy · 15/04/2023 10:18

It's a problem for the person in a larger house if there aren't enough NHS workers if they are sick,

This is a really good point. I can't see healthcare or social workers happy to work years, struggling to afford everything & working to protect other people inheritances being happy about the situation. More & more will just emigrate like doctors are doing.

Please explain “working to protect other people’s inheritances” - I genuinely have no idea what that means.

Elphame · 15/04/2023 10:26

When the royal family and celebrities downsize to one small property then I may consider it.

Otherwise no.

proppy · 15/04/2023 10:28

I phrased it badly as i'm in rush. I believe there should be more balance in the tax system, as in there is too much weighted on income. I can see where care workers may be less then thrilled that they work for a shitty wage, can't afford secure housing but the person they are helping gets to pass on 1m of housing wealth or more if they have navigated the system but gets care, gets to retire earlier & gets free prescriptions etc. Those things are not going to be available for todays workers at the same age. We need a functioning health care system, social care system, emergency support etc. Everyone is going to need to pay more & because of the population dynamic shift it's not sustainable to target just workers.

MarshaBradyo · 15/04/2023 10:30

If a party works out how to get money from people in a way that means my widowed neighbours have to leave an area they’ve lived in for decades, have support from many on the street, have their own homes as comfort I’ll be at any protest if one happens.

thebaneofmylifeisacat · 15/04/2023 10:31

We are almost boomers and selling to upsize.

It's a myth that you need less space as kids leave as then grandchildren arrive and family gatherings just get bigger.

Our money our choice mind business 😂😂

MorrisZapp · 15/04/2023 10:32

Obviously nobody should have to do anything they don't want to with their own private property BUT I think there's room for a conversation about larger family homes.

I grew up in a big, crazy Georgian townhouse (located directly behind a chip shop, which is how my parents could afford it). It was legendary among our friends and family, there was always something happening and of course there were big changes over the decades with decor, updating etc.

Then my parents divorced, the house had to be sold, and they both now live in much smaller places, in one case a purpose built retirement flat.

We anticipated that this would be absolute hell for them both, but in fact after the dust had settled its actually brilliant. That old house was an unpredictable money pit and their new places are warm, safe and secure.

I hear people say 'oh we couldn't sell the house, it would be heartbreaking' but honestly, we've found that memories are about people, and that it's actually OK to leave a beloved family home with generations of history.

This was all through choice obviously but I would like to tell others about our experience, especially if it makes anyone's parent safer and more secure as they head towards old age.

moveoverye · 15/04/2023 10:38

Take my mum for example. Lives in a lovely 4 bedroom semi with large garden.

She would love to move to a 2 bedroom bungalow with a small to medium garden.

Are there any? No. There used to be, but they have been extended outward so there is no garden, or upwards for more bedrooms.

What there are plenty of, is stuffy little new build flats clearly built for old people.

Of course my mum does not want to live in a poky flat, when she is used to living in a lovely house with a garden. She will only move if it ever becomes impossible for her to stay in the house due to declining health and mobility.

pottydimley · 15/04/2023 10:56

Maybe he'd like us all to go all the way and book tickets for Dignitas, to save the NHS some money.

pottydimley · 15/04/2023 10:58

SpringLobelia · 14/04/2023 12:38

You first millionaire media person

This, 100%.

pottydimley · 15/04/2023 11:02

Limboingnow · 14/04/2023 13:01

They should extend the bedroom tax to all tenures to facilitate downsizing (but allow all tenures to have one extra bedroom). This would free up space for lodgers renters etc and help stop 2nd homes and provide housing for refugees.

OTOH I would like to downsize but the housing market has gone pearshaped for large properties at the moment

It's called council tax. If you're in a larger, or more valuable property, you pay more.

LuckySantangelo35 · 15/04/2023 11:08

Nope

people have a right to live in the property they have bought.

Which is all it really boils down to.

can’t see how anyone could argue with this

pottydimley · 15/04/2023 11:09

GreenwichOrTwicks · 14/04/2023 13:14

The problem is that this country houses are considered investments but don’t attract the tax of other investments so totally skewing the landscape.
Ridiculous to have one person living in a 4 bedroom house.
We should be taxing this type of situation much more heavily so that it incentivises people to move to an appropriate dwelling.

incentivises bullies

Jonei · 15/04/2023 11:12

Elphame · 15/04/2023 10:26

When the royal family and celebrities downsize to one small property then I may consider it.

Otherwise no.

Lol, yes, I might consider it then. But I still may not agree. I've paid for my property and I'm keeping it.

tailinthejam · 15/04/2023 11:14

DeeHellem · 14/04/2023 16:42

Can you elaborate on this please?

Wills? Don't understand the context of that in relation to downsizing.

CGT? No CGT on your main residence if residential so what do you mean by that?

Intentional deprivation of assets? If you downsize and spend the money for your own enjoyment that's not intentional deprivation. Downsizing and gifting it away could be deprivation unless it was done for IHT purposes.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post.

Show quote history

We are currently in a situation where DH and I are re-jigging our wills, and rearranging who owns what (including a proportion of an inherited property). We had a meeting with a solicitor the other day, who went into all sorts of details regarding the best way to redistribute our assets to minimise how much in the way of care home fees could be taken in future. We are in our 60's and from what the solicitor said, it is far from straightforward. Selling your home to downsize, and then spending the money (or giving it to family) is frowned upon, and can be considered to be an intentional deprivation of assets.

GasPanic · 15/04/2023 11:27

proppy · 15/04/2023 10:28

I phrased it badly as i'm in rush. I believe there should be more balance in the tax system, as in there is too much weighted on income. I can see where care workers may be less then thrilled that they work for a shitty wage, can't afford secure housing but the person they are helping gets to pass on 1m of housing wealth or more if they have navigated the system but gets care, gets to retire earlier & gets free prescriptions etc. Those things are not going to be available for todays workers at the same age. We need a functioning health care system, social care system, emergency support etc. Everyone is going to need to pay more & because of the population dynamic shift it's not sustainable to target just workers.

This really.

Cash should flow towards people who work hard and are productive in society not people who sit on assets.

Tax on assets should be increased and on income reduced. Especially inheritance tax which is a bit of a joke really.

SquidwardBound · 15/04/2023 11:28

I actually think it would be better to have far more emphasis in the tax system on income. Fewer of the taxes that come out of already taxes income, and which have a disproportionate affect on lower earners.

And target taxes at the points where people have gained wealth. Stamp duty, for example, should really be paid by the seller rather than the buyer, and may be more sensibly calculated as a percentage the increase in house price since they bought it to this point of sale. It is ludicrous that the buyer is the one being taxed.

DorritLittle · 15/04/2023 11:43

My mum lives in a large house. Living there she feels surrounded by nice memories. We can all stay when we visit. She is ten minutes from a High Street, station and buses. She has an active life because of this.

She has actually looked around for a smaller house within her budget, but she can’t find anything in such a handy location that she would also want to live in.

Why should she feel morally obliged to move somewhere less convenient?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/04/2023 11:58

I find it such a weird idea to "just" downsize. I spent at least 20k on the garden so it would be exactly what I want it to be, all building work on the house is done with the idea in mind that we want good quality (so the dearer option) because we want to stay in this house. It's not like you can get the same quality by downsizing, you'd have to start over! Oh, and since covid our extra bedrooms are offices... that did come in handy when we were told to stay away from other people.

Exactly!

Whisper23 · 15/04/2023 12:08

Cash should flow towards people who work hard and are productive in society not people who sit on assets. Tax on assets should be increased and on income reduced. Especially inheritance tax which is a bit of a joke really

So once people reach a certain age they should be punished with higher taxes for no longer being "productive" in society? Despite having "worked hard" and paid income tax throughout their working life? Reckon you'll feel differently about that one you reach that age.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 15/04/2023 12:12

LemonPledge555 · 14/04/2023 14:28

YABU firstly for listening to that antagonistic and inflammatory AWFUL man who generally knows piss all detail of what he’s talking about.

Secondly YABU for even considering it’s enforceable.

We are a family of 3 in a 4 bed house that’s on the large side. We use all the rooms. Do we need to sell up?

absolute claptrap and BBCR2 sadly scraping the bottom of the barrel for segments for JV. I’ve stopped listening to R2 and threads like this make me glad o have.

Im with you... I think he really believes that he haa in 'in depth discussion'...

In reality... The depth of a shallow puddle!

WhatWouldJeevesDo · 15/04/2023 12:16

DemelzaandRoss · 14/04/2023 12:50

My owned property, my choice.
As far as I know the UK is still a reasonably democratic country.
Nobody has any right to force me to downsize.
Naturally, being a country of free speech also, people are entitled to their own opinions.
My own opinion is that it is not morally wrong. Houses are homes, not investments. I have free will to do what is best for myself & my family. There is no place for state intervention.

I draw the opposite conclusion. Housing policy shouldn’t be pushed onto the individual conscience. It won’t work.
We need a national strategy because the situation for the young is rather desperate.