Jeremy Vine - people are morally obliged to downsize and free up property

[JoanThursday1972]

Currently have this on the radio. Suggestion is that people are not entitled to remain in and live in the house that they have bought and paid for. That they should downsize and free this up for more deserving occupants, ie families.

This is surely a personal choice and not an obligation? Anyone is entitled to live in a house they have bought, regardless of size.

Surely those will hit people in properties they 'need', too?

Ridiculous. Can't stand his whining voice

Council housing - yes. Private property - no

Council tenants pay rent but council houses are too big an asset to waste by being under occupied. There needs to be smaller council properties available.

We are buying a house much bigger than we need, because we want a big garden in which to enjoy our retirement. We would happily live in a smaller property with a decent-sized garden, but most houses for sale near us were multi-bedroom properties on tiny plots.
Also we are merging two properties and frankly would be stupid not to move up the property ladder, as investing in property is the only reliable way to maintain funds in the UK at the moment.
We will happily move out in 10-12 years to a nice small retirement cottage...

It's easy to blame this problem on empty nesters but the reality is that there often aren't suitable homes for them to move to in the area.

My PIL are happy to downsize but can't find anything nearby that would suit them (and they really aren't being that fussy).

A few couples on my road have mentioned wanting to downsize, for financial and mobility reasons, but there aren't any bungalows or flats available.

In all of these cases, the people don't want to move further out as they fear having less access to health services as they get older.

I'm not in charge of longevity. I live in a county where 80 per cent of the population is retirement age. It makes the housing more expensive and the schools much emptier. It also lives people in amazing homes they can't look after as they can't afford the 1200 a week care fees. It's really sad all around.

My Great Gran is 95. She has a lovely flat. Probably worth £500K in a tourist hotspot. Similar sell on the same day. Some go to sealed bids and 10-15k over asking.. Could she leave her three bed flat and live in a one bed flat - there aren't any our way. Would you have her live in the dodgy seaside town where one beds are freely available? She worked since she was 12 and full time since leaving school at 15. Her husband died young and she kept her home by 2 jobs and letting rooms.

You do realise he’s running a debate?!!

What subsidised point? That is was council before she bought it in the 80s?

A few posters have criticised JV for this opinion. JV hosts a show in which there is discussion on current issues. He usually has a guest or two to speak on the topic and then take calls from listeners- usually trying to give airtime to both sides of the argument. So the opinion outlined in the OP is not necessarily JV’s opinion. I didn’t actually hear the show today so can’t say- maybe JV gave the impression that was his view. But just that usually, his discussions involve putting across both sides.

I don't live in social housing. Is it much lower than market rent. Gosh. I feel rather rude and naive

In my job role I see quite a lot of older people who have stayed in large properties but can't really afford to heat them or pay the council tax, and then want to claim council tax support for large council tax bills. It doesn't seem fair that tax payers are paying this for them when they could downsize and have spare cash. Also that those with big houses can get their home care all funded if they have no savings ( or less than the threshold) wheras those who have sensibly downsized have to pay for their own care. Overall though I don't think anyone has a moral obligation to downsize unless they can't fund it and are asking others to.

No because they are much higher costs in larger houses.

Higher maintenance costs. Higher band of council tax. Larger house with poorer insulation higher heating costs.

I know people at the moment whose houses are literally collapsing around them because they can't afford the energy and maintenance costs, but they won't move.

My in-laws live in a big 5 bed house, huge garden, they are paying to have a bedroom converted into a third (fancy) bathroom because 2 bathrooms is not enough for 2 people lol. They've owned the house for 30 years and have done lots to it over the years. It's their home, I'd never expect them to give it up. We live in a 3 bed and are waiting it out to buy a 4 bed as the prices + interest rates are pricing us out slightly. This is the thing our in laws house is worth 700k or so, it's a big family home but most young families couldn't afford it anyway.

Not everyone wants a communal garden though. It’s nice to have your own space sometimes. I worry about where this is heading. I’m sure the push for euthanasia will grow as the aging population becomes more of an issue. I dread getting old.

@RedToothBrush I live in one of the fastest growing towns in a v rural county.

There is no council housing being built. Developers get planning permission promising "social" or "affordable" housing and a primary school. Many developers then argue they can't afford so much cheaper housing or the primary school (and there aren't enough teachers) so they get revised planning permission. They certainly aren't building for downsizing elderly either.

Yes there are NIMBYs. But a lot of people just see developers getting away with murder, not contributing to the infrastructure (eg roads, drainage, treatment plants) and not catering for studio flats, starter homes etc. So they object.

And few people are building for the average-earning elderly to downsize to. No storage, no outside space, teeny tiny rooms which are often not capable of taking a wheelchair or are difficult to get round. As for the retirement flats PPs have talked about the fact many if not most are massive cons where you pay through the nose for leasehold and management charges .. and your relatives find they sell at a massive loss when you die.

No one I know of would object to the council building more council housing. But then you do need to ensure that they can't be sold on (still the law) and perhaps introduce the idea that once you can afford to buy a property privately you should move on.

@JingleBellez but you made the point about overpopulation & a lot of that has been driven by people living longer....

Yes, but anyone who lives in that large house will face the same costs, whether they're an older person on their own or a younger family with a kid in each bedroom. You say the lone person doesn't need that house but the family does. I'm just pointing out that the costs will be the same, whoever lives there.

Absolutely not if it is your own house that you have worked for, and own. Council properties, absolutely. The right to buy was a ridiculous mistake (I wouldn't be against it if more had been built but demand outstrips demand hugely). No one should be allowed to endlessly rent a house built for a family/ larger group of people when there are so many living in overcrowded B&Bs waiting to be housed.

Gardening can be a huge cost.

I know someone who was quoted £100 a month for the gardening.

He also turned on the heating for 1 day in winter and burnt through £20 of gas.

Yes - I see this all the time. Elderly people living in awful conditions, no central heating, leaks in the roof etc. Maybe they just find it too overwhelming to think about moving.

Also that those with big houses can get their home care all funded if they have no savings ( or less than the threshold) wheras those who have sensibly downsized have to pay for their own care.

I think this will change in that people with assets will have to contribute more to their care/treatment if they actually want any.

You would think so but currently the house you live in is not taken into account at all as being an asset when it comes to paying for care. How would people pay if they don't want to downsize, would they just run up a bill which is then paid when they die ? I honestly think there would be an uproar if any government proposed to bring in such changes !

You form a lifelong attachment to your place. I feel this myself and I live in a tiny place compared with some people.

Plus the prospect of downsizing means you have to get rid of huge amounts of crap.

Fight club : "the things you own end up owning you".

No they can't. They have to sell their houses and use the funds. As someone who had to sell DFs house, I know this for a fact. The council even checks to see if you any gifts have been given.