To take DD to the Extinction Rebellion protest next weekend?

[Rainallnight]

DD is 6, going on 7. Saturday is some sort of family oriented Earth day. I’d like to take her because I think it’s an important historical moment in the climate crisis.

BUT I have no idea if it’s safe, or even whether getting there and back will be a nightmare for small people.

Has anyone taken DC to one of these before? Is it manageable?

). In relation to the perceived demographics of the group, most did not consider XR to be a diverse organisation, especially in terms of class and race, and they believed they would feel uncomfortable around XR activists. A frequent theme among the respondents was that they did not feel the group could relate to them or their communities. For example, Dave, a security guard, said:

I see them as a, as a largely middle-class group of people … if you try to take some of those people on to the council estates in Bristol, or even Liverpool or anywhere else, or outside of their little bubble, I think they wouldn’t be able to relate for five minutes … Or they’d probably just fall back on their prejudices … (Dave 02/08/20)

A few of the BAME participants had particularly been put off joining by the groups apparent whiteness. For example, Kate, a community worker, commented:

When I walked through, I was in Parliament Square during the last rebellion and I just saw it was … actually impossible to find a Person of Colour … That was definitely not a space for me. (Kate, 02/09/20)

In general, it seemed that there was a general feeling that the backgrounds and habits of the XR activists would be different to the interviewees, as Gabrielle comments:

There’s no actually ethnic type people that I could see that was there.  (Gabrielle, 15/08/20)

The final potential barrier, and probably the most significant in terms of strength of feeling, was the tactics that XR uses. The working-class and BAME interviewees felt very uncomfortable and even angry about these because they tend to involve illegal and disruptive activity. Furthermore, XR representatives have spoken about this in a way that implied that anyone could do the same. For example, when challenged on Radio 4’s Today programme about the disruption to people’s lives that XR were causing, Gail Bradbrook, one of the organisers, responded: “they should take some time off work and come and join us” (BBC Radio 4 18/04/19).

The blockading of printing sites had a domino effect not just on the readers, who received their papers late or not at all, but on the overnight print workers, delivery drivers, wholesale workers and newsagents – the working-class undercurrent of the print journalism world … these actions have directly impacted ordinary people, making them more likely to feel alienated from the cause. (Daniels Citation2020, np)

Yeah, so, Extinction Rebellion, when they first started I was really wanting to connect, because I’m so, you know, climate change is very important, and I’m looking for answers … but [laughs] there’s no way I’m gonna be, as a brown, Asian, Indian, I’m not gonna be lying across the road [laughs] and put myself at risk of being arrested … This is before any of the Black Lives Matter even happened, as in the George Floyd situation. (Shanti, 27/07/20)

No. I don’t in the slightest feel that is the space that I can organize in and be a part of an event in a safe way as a Person of Colour. … We cannot be put in situations where we are deliberately asked to be arrested. People like me, people where I grew up, I grew up in Tottenham in North London … [knowing of] the famous case from there, it was Mark Duggan, we don’t put ourselves in front of the police. We cross the road. (Kate, 02/09/20)

Perhaps that might help you to understand @crackofdoom why non-white people might not want to join you in your oh-so-effective disco dancing in front of Buckingham Palace.

Sorry, I forgot that you're not actually interested in hearing anything that challenges your bubble of privilege. I guess you think Kate and Shanti are 'Daily Mail readers' too.

No, I have not read the research paper and I don't intend to, I'm trying to work. I have heard and read the same argument hundreds of times, and to be honest: as a white person I don't intend to pontificate on the matter, I'd rather keep my mouth shut and listen. As I have, to excellent Black thinkers involved with XR, such as Marvina Newton.

Now, why won't YOU come down and add your voice? 🤔

people of colour do join protests, just not this one

Now, why won't YOU come down and add your voice? 🤔

You're just being fucking insulting now. I just took the time to copy and paste the words of several Black and working-class people who explained very fucking clearly why we don't want to 'add our voice' to your stupid church garden party.

Your work is so pressing that you have time to write multiple posts boasting about your own ineffective actions, but you don't have 5 minutes to listen to other people explain stuff you don't understand.

Because then you might actually be forced to admit that your tactics and your entire movement is completely alienating to everyone outside your bubble

Go and do your work then. If you don't have time to hear what anyone else has to say, I don't understand why you think anyone else should listen to you.

I don't know whether to laugh or be concerned for you!

You think climate change combating employees will bar people from jobs for life because their parents took them to an Earth Day gathering?

''@user1471518104
You do realise the potential impact of being seen to be a member of a protest group? This could affect her career prospects for her entire life''

What a lot of nonsense...

Nobody is going to care or keep track of the fact that someone attends a protest about a cause like the environment that they are passionate about and does not take part in any violent action.

We still live in a democratic country...not communist China.

It only becomes an issue if someone is arrested because they took it to an extreme level where they take part in violent behaviour/criminal damage.

Peacefully marching or taking part in workshop is just part of anyone's freedom of expression.

Back to you OP: I completely understand that you want to talk to your child about the importance of the environmental issues.

I think she is a bit young to be involved now in this type of events simply because they can be really noisy/chaotic and over-crowded.

I would probably take a kid that age to a small, local event/protest but would be wary of joining big events in places like London for example just because of the size of it and possibility of some chaotic behaviour/clash with the police.

As a Londoner I saw many of these big protests and some are absolutely fine to join but others can be a bit intimidating.

But I don't represent Extinction Rebellion! I attended several actions and recently have taken a massive step back with being involved because I had too much on! I'm just one person, and you're talking to me - and personally attacking me- as if I represent the whole movement!

Again: if you really want to make this point, and for people to listen to you, go down this weekend! There will definitely be group discussions going on where they will be keen to hear your point of view! You can find some of the many people of colour associated with XR and hear how they think the effort within XR to change attitudes and perceptions is going! And if I was there, I wouldn't be arguing with you, I'd be shutting up and listening to them!

''@user1471518104 · 14/04/2023 13:03

You do realise that for most jobs that need clearance for. Which will be most of the companies working on combating climate change will require a level of clearance right ? So having a record of you and your family being part of a militant anti government group would automatically bar you for life. Despite what age you are
''

Again, don't be daft.

I have attended things animal right protests, May Day protests in the 90s when I was young.

Not to mention that my Twitter account has always openly been of anti-tory and of concerns for animal welfare and the environment.

Never prevented me from getting a job. I have had several DBS checks done as well as I work with vulnerable people.

Unless I wanted to apply to join Tory HQ (unlikely...) I don't see why it would be an issue.

This is partly why to my knowledge XR are not focusing on civil disobedience / arrestable offences at present. They made a big announcement about it last year I think. They realised it was alienating both potential members and detractors.

This weekend's event is not owned by XR. There are something like 80 different organisations from friends of the earth to Patagonia involved in its organisation. Each one will have some distinct aims but broadly with the same mission, to limit damage to the planet and its people.

They are relying on people turning up in big numbers, peacefully, as a way to get noticed.

They are also working with the marathon organisers.

OP I think it will be fine. Busy though, I'd avoid Sunday personally because there will be loads more people about due to the marathon. There are set family areas away from the main stage etc with loads of activities.

Yes we can and should do what we can as individuals, but we need systemic, governmental change to make a difference, and this is what actions like this are trying to bring about.

I took my DD on 2 XR marches in Bristol a few years back. She saw Greta Thunberg speak. She remembers one of the marches (she was a bit too young for the other one) and still talks about it. They learnt about Greta Thunberg at school recently and she was so proud to tell them she saw her at a march. It was a really positive experience for her.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/big-one-extinction-rebellion-cliimate-protest-london-xr

This explains XR's new stance and also a bit about the protest.

Exactly, what a massive load of pish. I went on a load of CND demos when I was young - didn't stop me getting clearance to work on several MOD sites in later life.

Yes. I used to think like this until one day I scratched my head and had a little think.

If this disastrous scenario was really going to come to pass, I asked myself wouldn't every government in every land be building more rail lines and providing more public transport.

I answered, yes they would but they aren't.

Then I asked myself id this disastrous scenario was really coming to pass, wouldn't every government in the world ban air travel and certainly not be building any more runways.

I answered yes they would but they aren't.

If this disastrous scenario was really coming to pass, then why would all these conferences held to discuss it be full of people staying in luxury resorts, often flying there in private jets, and sometimes bringing cavalcades of gas guzzling cars. Wouldn't they have local conferences in their own countries and then fly one representative commercial flight to represent them.

I answered yes they would but they aren't.

Then I asked myself if this disastrous scenario was really coming to pass, then wouldn't every government in the world, introduce population caps- something that every eco warrior would be doing voluntarily.

I answered yes, they would but they aren't.

If this disastrous scenario was really coming to pass, then those who believe it would not own a car, would not fly and would never buy anything new unless the old one had fallen apart.

I answered yes they would but they aren't.

So it is all hysterics and only on the agenda because every time Green is mentioned, it costs the plebs more money. What a con!

The planet always rights itself so I just don't worry and more.

The planet always rights itself so I just don't worry and more.

Wow.

Darker - you live in a capital city where you would rather no-one protests anything because it inconveniences you? Have you thought of moving?

Sorry, not darker - French lady?

The government haven't responded to repeated strikes by doctors, teachers, nurses, ambulance drivers, transport workers, etc. Some of which have directly led to people's deaths, and have caused massive inconvenience, cost and disruption. Even that hasn't made them listen.

Why would anyone think that a load of self-important posh white people having a lovely time prancing around in front of Parliament on a sunny weekend is going to make any difference at all to anything?

This isn't about bringing about change, because it is obviously not doing that. And also, because none of the people involved actually do anything at all to make any changes in their own lives. It's an ego boost. A mutual admiration society with no effective aims or objectives, attended by hypocrites who travel internationally, drive cars, consume recklessly, and have delightedly bought into the ideology that "it's not about individuals, it's about governments". How very convenient for them. God forbid that Georgia might have to walk to school, or that Giles doesn't have his own car as soon as he turns 17, or that Ellie doesn't get to 'go travelling'.

This weekend's event is not owned by XR.

You'd better tell TfL that, because they got it wrong in their weekly email

Central London area The XR Extinction Rebellion Biodiversity march will be taking place from 10:00 to 18:00. The march will begin from Storeys Gate and end in Parliament Square. Increased traffic and large crowds are expected. The XR Extinction Rebellion Feeder Ride Campaign will take place from 10:00 to 18:00. Cycling groups will cycle along The Mall to Parliament Square to support the XR Extinction Rebellion Biodiversity march.

It's one of the many, many sporting, political, and religious/cultural events that are going to clog up central London this weekend. Peter Kay at the O2 and the Harlequins at Twickenham are also going to cause disruption and mild annoyance. At least the people going to those events are honest about the fact that they are going for their own enjoyment, rather than doing something they want to do for fun while lecturing everyone else about how inferior we are.

@TheFrenchLady

They would only do those (likely unpopular) things if they believed the consequences would fall within the next decade or so

The short-term time-lines of western governments just don't work well for long term issues.

But the penny is beginning to drop, and some measures are coming in (often to much derision). The hope is that it's not too little too late.

From what I can see, the young headcases have moved on to Just Stop Oil (I can never take someone seriously when they use the word "just" because reality is never as simple as they seem to think). Left behind are a bunch of old vicars.

Just Stop Oil are present, and have today blocked the Dartford Tunnel (something that XR did not mention in their family friendly info sheets!)

Bottom line is, I think, that XR cannot control what all the groups will get up to.

So if you are going, remain alert to the possibility that there might be trouble, and if you think something is brewing, move away immediately

The news is that protesters who blocked the Dartford Tunnel have been sentenced.

Thank you!

I'm so sorry - I misread a news pop up

Except what the rich and powerful realise is that climate change won't affect people indiscriminately. Those with money and resource (aka the ruling class) will actually probably get richer. They don't care about controlling population in the global south because they absolutely know they'll be dying in their millions. They care about stopping them leave on boats though. That they do care about.

And as for your final point, you are absolutely right throughout the history of Earth the planet has experienced many temperatures and it will survive this change. Humans and animals on the other hand have a much smaller temperature window that is compatible with life. So when XR, Greenpeace, WWF, David Attenborough etc talk about saving the planet what they are actually mean is the people and animals that live on it. Because it is unequivocally clear that there has not been a global temperature change like this in modern human history, but we also know that there have been mass extinction events in the past.

Did you go in the end OP? I was there with my teen - lovely event.