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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To take DD to the Extinction Rebellion protest next weekend?

246 replies

Rainallnight · 14/04/2023 09:51

DD is 6, going on 7. Saturday is some sort of family oriented Earth day. I’d like to take her because I think it’s an important historical moment in the climate crisis.

BUT I have no idea if it’s safe, or even whether getting there and back will be a nightmare for small people.

Has anyone taken DC to one of these before? Is it manageable?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
dephlogisticated · 21/04/2023 10:42

Yeahreally · 21/04/2023 10:15

One final point from me (none of this is good for my mental health so I'm off)

So much of what people have posted here has been about the choices we make as individuals, as if the key to stopping the worst effects of CC are millions of people all taking the same small actions voluntarily. Hopefully everyone can see that this can never form the basis of a sensible plan or strategy. It's nothing more than a hope in vain.

Meaningful action with meaningful outputs has to be systemic change, led from the top. It can mean home insulation programmes, more investment in renewables, rationing systems for flying, better and cleaner public transport, better planning and strategy around food production. List goes on. But all this comes from the top.

And everytime we focus on, say, what oil products are used in a protesters raincoat, we divert attention and focus from the people and organisations who could really make the difference (but would rather not).

That's why I'm protesting today.

Thanks for the debate, have lovely days all.

Agree Flowers

Darker · 21/04/2023 10:43

The poll tax protest was always going to be high risk.

Sadly I think all demonstrations are going to be less safe from now on due to the government stance on protest. However I’m going to XR this weekend and feel that this is low risk at the moment. I will pay attention and if that changes I may decide not to go.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 11:23

Darker · 21/04/2023 09:05

And hugely disruptive for those of us who live here and can't get through/ across town all weekend

Just wait until climate change really starts to kick in. Floods, violent storms, heat, food shortages….

XR welcomes everyone who cares. Everyone. Because it’s global-scale action that’s required. It’s governments and Multi-National companies that will make a difference.

Dirty industries get away with it when the blame falls on individuals who don’t recycle or choose to travel.

Well, the friend I was meant to be seeing has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, so your gleeful apocalyptic scenarios aren't going to affect her.

I wanted to be there for her, but can't, thanks to a bunch of self righteous overprivileged hypocrites having their 'earth party'.

Dirty industries get away with it when the blame falls on individuals who don’t recycle or choose to travel.

gosh, this is very convenient, isn't it. It's fine to drive a car and fly on long haul holidays because it's all someone else's fault.

Darker · 21/04/2023 11:32

Sorry to hear about your friend.

You will be able to travel over the next few days to see them. Public transport will be operating. You can plan your journey knowing that there may be some issues on the roads around the event, and you can look at the programme to see which roads might be affected.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 11:49

Darker · 21/04/2023 11:32

Sorry to hear about your friend.

You will be able to travel over the next few days to see them. Public transport will be operating. You can plan your journey knowing that there may be some issues on the roads around the event, and you can look at the programme to see which roads might be affected.

I don't drive or own a car (through choice, for environmental reasons).

I have health problems of my own (not as serious as hers) and I'm not willing to risk getting caught up in it.

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 12:14

It's fairly obvious to see who's actually attended an XR event here, versus those who have read about it in the Daily Mail 😆

It should be a fun and positive experience for you and your daughter OP- I'm pretty sure there's a dedicated children's area with fun activities- people have linked to the event website upthread.

I've been to several, and one with my 11 year old, where we did disco dancing in front of Buckingham Palace, and then went to Trafalgar Square for what should have been a peaceful Citizens' Assembly, but was instead being violently disrupted- by the police 🙄 That's the only kind of violence you have to look out for with XR, but any children's events should be well insulated from that.

I'm currently sitting this one out (ironically, exhausted from taking my kids around Europe by train instead of flying, but I'm sure the "I notice you were breathing though! I am clever!" posse will be along to attempt to pick holes in that 🙄), but I wish everyone attending a fun and fruitful weekend.

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 12:23

Oh, and another thing: the person suggesting that attending an XR protest might damage your 6 year oldest career was rightfully lampooned, but for an older child who is wondering what career path they might take, these events are great. There is usually a rolling programme of talks on various topics related to climate change run by people like XR Scientists and/or XR Writers, and there is always a lot of representation from subgroups like XR Doctors, XR Farmers etc etc, so it's a good place to meet people from all kinds of professions and hear a bit about what they do, alongside their concern for the environment.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 12:44

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 12:23

Oh, and another thing: the person suggesting that attending an XR protest might damage your 6 year oldest career was rightfully lampooned, but for an older child who is wondering what career path they might take, these events are great. There is usually a rolling programme of talks on various topics related to climate change run by people like XR Scientists and/or XR Writers, and there is always a lot of representation from subgroups like XR Doctors, XR Farmers etc etc, so it's a good place to meet people from all kinds of professions and hear a bit about what they do, alongside their concern for the environment.

And best of all, everyone is white! So your darling children can visit London without having to see any of the scary non-white people

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/19/extinction-rebellion-white-faces-diversity

When I look at Extinction Rebellion, all I see is white faces. That has to change | Athian Akec

XR must realise its lack of diversity and glamorisation of arrest puts young black and brown people off, says UK Youth Parliament member Athian Akec

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/19/extinction-rebellion-white-faces-diversity

Devoutspoken · 21/04/2023 12:46

Protests don't stop people getting across london, it depends how you travel - walk, cycle

Darker · 21/04/2023 13:00

It feels fair to point out that this article is more than 3 years old. I don’t know how things are now so I can’t comment on that.

I would imagine the government stance on protests in general would put off people who are already at increased risk of arrest from attending anything, especially with the recent revelations on the state of the Metropolitan Police.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:04

Darker · 21/04/2023 13:00

It feels fair to point out that this article is more than 3 years old. I don’t know how things are now so I can’t comment on that.

I would imagine the government stance on protests in general would put off people who are already at increased risk of arrest from attending anything, especially with the recent revelations on the state of the Metropolitan Police.

It is, yes, but I've not seen any changes. All of the points in the article still stand.

And there is a total refusal among the white, middle class, English posters on here crowing about how superior they are (e.g. the pathetic insinuation that anyone who doesn't support this is a Daily Mail reader) to acknowledge any of the points raised.

I've been saying stuff along these lines on here for years (as a non-white Londoner with decades of experience of protests) and no one ever engages or acknowledges it.

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:06

Bamboux why would people of colour have no interest in trying to halt climate change, something that is already disproportionately affecting people in the global South?

Have you actually been to an XR protest?

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:06

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:06

Bamboux why would people of colour have no interest in trying to halt climate change, something that is already disproportionately affecting people in the global South?

Have you actually been to an XR protest?

Read the article.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:07

And Black Londoners aren't in 'the global south'. Ffs.

meatbaseddessert · 21/04/2023 13:10

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 12:14

It's fairly obvious to see who's actually attended an XR event here, versus those who have read about it in the Daily Mail 😆

It should be a fun and positive experience for you and your daughter OP- I'm pretty sure there's a dedicated children's area with fun activities- people have linked to the event website upthread.

I've been to several, and one with my 11 year old, where we did disco dancing in front of Buckingham Palace, and then went to Trafalgar Square for what should have been a peaceful Citizens' Assembly, but was instead being violently disrupted- by the police 🙄 That's the only kind of violence you have to look out for with XR, but any children's events should be well insulated from that.

I'm currently sitting this one out (ironically, exhausted from taking my kids around Europe by train instead of flying, but I'm sure the "I notice you were breathing though! I am clever!" posse will be along to attempt to pick holes in that 🙄), but I wish everyone attending a fun and fruitful weekend.

The irony of someone who admits to have created at least one new consumer to the world thinking that dancing is going to change the world.

Seriously.

You have made the biggest and most negative impact one human can make to the environment.

A fucking dance impacts nothing.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:12

@Darker @crackofdoom

Here's an actual research paper published in 2021. The abstract reads:

There is a resurgent interest in, and debate about, inclusive environmentalism. Within this context, it has been alleged that Extinction Rebellion (XR) exclude Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) and working-class people. To understand more about whether and how this occurs, and how it might be remedied, we interviewed 40 BAME and working-class people in England and Wales about their perceptions of, and opinions about, XR. We found that, while XR’s tactics and messages have varied across time and place, their discourse and activities, overall, have tended to alienate BAME and working-class people. The interviewees were very concerned about climate change, and supported urgent government action, but they were not interested in being included in XR.

Research Article
Beyond inclusion? Perceptions of the extent to which Extinction Rebellion speaks to, and for, Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) and working-class communities
Karen Bell &Gnisha Bevan
Pages 1205-1220 | Received 12 Feb 2021, Accepted 21 Jul 2021, Published online: 01 Sep 2021
Download citation

doi.org/10.1080/13549839.2021.1970728

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:13

Any comment on that research paper@crackofdoom ? Enjpy your fun disco dancing surrounded by white middle class Christians. I'm sure you'll get some great photos and face paint. Woot

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:13

Well, the article does reference that, doesn't it?

There's been a massive debate within XR over just the points raised in the article. Which is why deliberately getting arrested isn't a feature of this weekend's protests at all.

(Although it was always an option to participate in XR in any number of ways without running the risk of getting arrested. As a single mum I've never put myself at risk of arrest either, and still managed to participate).

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:15

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:13

Well, the article does reference that, doesn't it?

There's been a massive debate within XR over just the points raised in the article. Which is why deliberately getting arrested isn't a feature of this weekend's protests at all.

(Although it was always an option to participate in XR in any number of ways without running the risk of getting arrested. As a single mum I've never put myself at risk of arrest either, and still managed to participate).

Are you Black?

I think you may have missed the entire point about the risk of being arrested.

Perhaps you could try reading the research paper if you were actually interested in other people's perspectives rather than claiming to speak on their behalf.

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:16

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:12

@Darker @crackofdoom

Here's an actual research paper published in 2021. The abstract reads:

There is a resurgent interest in, and debate about, inclusive environmentalism. Within this context, it has been alleged that Extinction Rebellion (XR) exclude Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) and working-class people. To understand more about whether and how this occurs, and how it might be remedied, we interviewed 40 BAME and working-class people in England and Wales about their perceptions of, and opinions about, XR. We found that, while XR’s tactics and messages have varied across time and place, their discourse and activities, overall, have tended to alienate BAME and working-class people. The interviewees were very concerned about climate change, and supported urgent government action, but they were not interested in being included in XR.

Research Article
Beyond inclusion? Perceptions of the extent to which Extinction Rebellion speaks to, and for, Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) and working-class communities
Karen Bell &Gnisha Bevan
Pages 1205-1220 | Received 12 Feb 2021, Accepted 21 Jul 2021, Published online: 01 Sep 2021
Download citation

doi.org/10.1080/13549839.2021.1970728

Corrected link
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13549839.2021.1970728

Journal cover image for Local Environment

Beyond inclusion? Perceptions of the extent to which Extinction Rebellion speaks to, and for, Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) and working-class communities

There is a resurgent interest in, and debate about, inclusive environmentalism. Within this context, it has been alleged that Extinction Rebellion (XR) exclude Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAM...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13549839.2021.1970728

Nat6999 · 21/04/2023 13:16

Ds is at the ER demo in London today, from what he has said when he rang, it is pretty peaceful, I don't know what the one tomorrow will be like.

GirlFromMarsBars · 21/04/2023 13:19

dephlogisticated · 21/04/2023 10:42

Agree Flowers

Show quote history

Me too. I don't personally think the XR tactics are effective as they alienate too many people (as evidenced by this thread). But I understand why they are doing it - it's too late for us to learn about living more sustainably as individuals as people are suggesting - if we don't make systemic changes soon the planet is fxxcked. Some scientists believe it already is.

But people don't want to or can't accept that so we carry on with our heads in the sand

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:21

Bamboux
No, I'm not black. Sorry about that.
But if you're concerned, why don't you go down to the XR protests yourself, instantly rendering them a bit less white? 🤔 There will be lots of open discussions about all kinds of things- including, if previous events are anything to go by, how to make XR a more inclusive movement? Fantastic opportunity to get your voice heard where it matters, no?

Otherwise, how do YOU think we should combat the massive, overwhelming threat of climate change?

Bamboux · 21/04/2023 13:24

crackofdoom · 21/04/2023 13:21

Bamboux
No, I'm not black. Sorry about that.
But if you're concerned, why don't you go down to the XR protests yourself, instantly rendering them a bit less white? 🤔 There will be lots of open discussions about all kinds of things- including, if previous events are anything to go by, how to make XR a more inclusive movement? Fantastic opportunity to get your voice heard where it matters, no?

Otherwise, how do YOU think we should combat the massive, overwhelming threat of climate change?

Have you read the research paper? You're an extraordinarily fast reader if so.

Once again you are demonstrating really effectively how XR alienate, patronise, insult and ignore non- white people and working-class people.

Instead of taking the time to read the article and to listen to other people and try to learn something, you just immediately do the standard thing of assuming you know better.

It's so arrogant and just a perfect example of everything that the research showed.

suzyscat · 21/04/2023 13:30

I've taken mine to similar. Just write your phone number on them/ on a wristband or something just in case and take lots of snacks and water. Don't stay too late.