To take DD to the Extinction Rebellion protest next weekend?

[Rainallnight]

DD is 6, going on 7. Saturday is some sort of family oriented Earth day. I’d like to take her because I think it’s an important historical moment in the climate crisis.

BUT I have no idea if it’s safe, or even whether getting there and back will be a nightmare for small people.

Has anyone taken DC to one of these before? Is it manageable?

Exactly and from experience and can get violent quickly. Don't even think about it OP.

Several years ago i would have said yes. My own DC were involved. But now i say don't bother - XR are total dicks. There are better things to do for Earth day.

Accusing them of being racist against everyone is downright nasty and has no basis.

I think you’d be mad to take a child. I’ve had to run the gauntlet of these protestors on several occasions trying to get to work and there’s a real undercurrent of aggression. I was very intimidated. It was also really infuriating how they absolutely trashed the area leaving litter and crap everywhere, such hypocrites.

I never realised how fortunate I was that my parents let me choose which protests to attend when I was old enough.

XR have stated that they will be doing all they can to prevent disruption to the Marathon.

The snag is that, as pointed out many times, this XR event (like most/all of them) is organised by them but actually made up of lots of different organisations, and its not clear whether they will indeed be able to live up to that aim.

She's 6, being taken somewhere by her (irresponsible) parent is not going to affect her career prostpects

I am all for fighting climate change and trying to save the planet but there are plenty of better environemntal organizations/campaigns to teach her about and support with her than extinction rebellion.

Used to take my eldest to political protests when he was little with zero issues but that was several years ago. I don't really like the look of protests currently. There's not a single cause that violent misogynists haven't appropriated as their own and whilst I'd expect them to be a minority, I wouldn't fancy getting stuck near them with small kids.

I can see why XR might criticise the marathon tbh. I love it, but have you seen the absolute river of plastic single use bottles that it becomes by the end of the day?

@Bamboux - no I'm not grinning. It was an attempt to get at FrenchLady's punchline before she did. I was trying to take the wind out of the inevitable "ah gotcha" moment but my granted, I was perhaps a bit clumsy in execution

However....to your point...

I'm neither proud nor ashamed but I feel no need to apologise for using my annual leave to attend a peaceful protest on public transport on an issue that will have impact on billions of people.

I'm not "virtue signalling" (I'm not on any social media, only a small number of friends know about me going); I'm not on a jolly (c'mon there are much better ways to enjoy yourself) and there are many, many things I'd much rather do with my money and my annual leave than attend this event.

I don't want a pat on the back for being virtuous (because I'm not virtuous... no one is on this issue- it's impossible hence point 2 in my 8.47 post). But just because I don't live in a hut and exist on nuts and berries doesn't invalidate any protest I engage in.

All my other actions I've tried since the 1990s (voting once every 5 years, donating to Greenpeace, signing petitions) have done nothing. I'm angry, so angry at the dereliction of duty from those who are meant to serve and protect us and this is my remaining peaceful course of action. And I (and others engaging in nonviolent protest) have nothing to be ashamed about.

Yes

That's why, as of last year, a couple of the water stations became ones with paper cups rather than plastic bottles. Also the organisers urge you carry your own water (and there's a waist-belt water carrier as part of the merch)

Plus there's now an option to forego finishers Tshirt and/or medal

I recommend "We Can't Run Away From This" by Damian Hall about climate/environmental impact of running, and what runners can do about it themselves

Well good. My point is the organised meets in Amsterdam, London, Washington, wherever are actually very inefficient. It is not the people of northern europe, east and west USA where these protests take place that need these kinds of events. They don't achieve much. It is in other places and societies where the information and education is needed. The XR rallies will not be net zero. Those activities will be net producers of carbon.

Even being on MN is not green. Posting creates a carbon footprint. I read on another thread the average person creates 7kg of CO2 annually just by texting. Then there is the carbon cost of that data being stored indefinitely even though it will never be read again. In the UK the average texter will score lower than 7kg because of our renewable energy output. In many countries it is close to zero renewable input. Perhaps rallying against those societies may be more effective.

@SquirmOfEels - "XR have stated that they will be doing all they can to prevent disruption to the Marathon"

This Guardian article from yesterday says the complete opposite: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/19/extinction-rebellion-pledges-to-help-guard-london-marathon-from-protests
Has there been a subsequent u-turn?

All my other actions I've tried since the 1990s (voting once every 5 years, donating to Greenpeace, signing petitions) have done nothing.

Every single one of those actions can be done from sitting on your backside behind a screen or piping to the voting booth for 10 Min. Complete and utter joke like XR like I keep saying if your so bothered you have not tried very hard, people who care voulenteer at places that can make a difference and actually do some manual work and make a physical difference to our environment and ecosystem. Apart from disruptions and protest camps how many of them and you have gone to NGO's , other organisations, small trusts building and maintaining areas for wildlife, litter picking, removing plastic from beaches, offering free labour to rewild rivers, rebuild paths, go abroad and help endangered species groups, ect. Nope not tried very hard have you.

Why don't ER take their goons and do a mass clear up of plastics from beaches or go on to the moors and help remove litter and invasive plants. Do some actual work and publise it. Yep they won't because it means doing some thing useful and graft and their mass of lazy Virtue signalers won't turn up as it means doing something productive.

It's easy to carry banners and prance about with bongos looking like tools but they won't swap them for spades, litter pickers and steetoe capped boots will they 🤣

??

No U-turn that I'm aware of. Both I and that article say that they'll be doing all they can to prevent disruption.

I'm not sure that they will achieve that (given the number of disparate groups under their umbrella) but the intention is clearly there.

Excellent post.

I disagree on a subtle point. Some of those who attend will do those things, but it will be a very small minority. The majority won't.

And I bet they all have passports.

One final point from me (none of this is good for my mental health so I'm off)

So much of what people have posted here has been about the choices we make as individuals, as if the key to stopping the worst effects of CC are millions of people all taking the same small actions voluntarily. Hopefully everyone can see that this can never form the basis of a sensible plan or strategy. It's nothing more than a hope in vain.

Meaningful action with meaningful outputs has to be systemic change, led from the top. It can mean home insulation programmes, more investment in renewables, rationing systems for flying, better and cleaner public transport, better planning and strategy around food production. List goes on. But all this comes from the top.

And everytime we focus on, say, what oil products are used in a protesters raincoat, we divert attention and focus from the people and organisations who could really make the difference (but would rather not).

That's why I'm protesting today.

Thanks for the debate, have lovely days all.

I wouldn't for her own safety. I live near a small rural seaside town and the local XR branch decided to take over a petrol station, stopping the queuing motorists from being able to get fuel or indeed exit the fuel station. I was leaving the adjoining supermarket and stood and watched from a distance because it was certainly interesting to see, but before long some of the occupants of the cars who were being held up got into physical altercations with the protestors. I know this doesn't always happen when the public are disrupted but sometimes some people can become violent when others purposely disrupt their day.

While you might thing the XR protest your DD wants to attend won't be planning on impacting people, discussions I saw on my local Facebook page after the incident mentioned above showed that there was no initial plan to block a petrol station and the customers, it was supposed to be a peaceful march along the highstreet and to the beachfront. Something clearly changed on-route and as a result, several people got hurt that day.

If your DD wants to put herself in these situations and accept these risks as an adult that is her decision to make but as a child, you need to protect her until she can decide for herself. Most 6 year olds won't attend a XR protest with the full understanding of how violent humans can respond sometimes, the risk of injury she's accepting when she attends, the future employers who may see this etc.

HOWEVER, I think it's commendable that your 6 year old has a healthy interest in our environment and I think that her interest in this should be channeled towards routes and sources that are safer for a 6 year old. As she gets older, she can make her own decisions but as a her parent, she needs you to guide her until then.

Agree 💯

Completely agree you’d be much better to spend the weekend teaching her to lick boots and maybe lying on the ground and getting used to being walked over. (Still don’t go to the protests, but don’t accept the ridiculous notion that recycling your jam jars and being an ’ethical consumer’ will solve the problem, or that we as individuals and not corporations are to blame for the climate catastrophe in the first place).

I'm sure there will be plenty of other demonstrations she can go to when she's actually old enough to understand it. Why is Saturday's one in particular such an important historical moment in the climate crisis?

Kittykatchunjy · 14/04/2023 10:28
I wouldn't take a 6 year old under any circumstances, I've been on a lot of marches and they can turn in an instant. She's far too young”

This. The student union at my FE College organised a coach to take students (17 and 18 year olds) to a poll tax protest in Trafalgar Square in the 80s. It turned nasty very suddenly and was terrifying, as a teenager. No idea how a 6 year old could deal with that.

I agree, too

That's a lot of words to avoid saying that you own and drive a car.