To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

meh, seen labour and the Tories in government, neither make life better for most.

change needs to start with individual responsibility. That the only way things will improve. Governments generally just tinker with one group slightly better off under one government, another group slightly better off under another

Again,

Brexit is COMPOUNDING the damage caused by austerity.

Why does this have to be explained?

Its not a difficult thing to understand.

I'm back from France having spent several weeks there (a regular thing) people feel more pride than we do (they also care enough to riot if they feel ignored, what do we do?) because they have decent healthcare, roads, public transport, sporting facilities for its youth, from small towns/large villages upwards have a sports centre, parking is pretty much free everywhere, even at beauty spots.

We lack pride in our country because our rulers treat us with contempt i.e Clap for Carers, then sack them, for refusing a vaccine & give them no wage increase, when a work force plan is announced :(

My BF in England has a torn ligament, been working hard all her life but despite in severe pain, 8 weeks to see a consultant, 12 to 18 months for surgery.

You tell me why she feels no pride in the UK ?

Brexit is a huge amount of the problem. And if there’s one thing our country has shown time and again is that most of us are incapable of taking individual responsibility. Individual responsibility gives us the “I’m all right Jack” mentality- it doesn’t make people realise they are part of a communal society and that they need to act as such for the benefit of everyone.

it is ironic that Brexit has resulted in less white/Eurocentric migration and more from very different countries. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Brexiteers!

We aren't governed to have "Personal Responsibility"

Its about leadership, which PM, Party leader or minister has shown any? Cameron? Clegg? Boris? Truss? shall i go on?

Who has been held accountable? or who went on to become super rich?

MN in 2020 How DARE the over 65s go out Dont they know we are all doing this for their benefit.
MN in 2023 Put the state pension age up sooner.

Exactly - the ability to fuck up enormously and walk away scot free beggars belief. And yet when we do have accountability systems they are so woefully inadequate - the headteacher who killed herself over an Ofsted inspection, or the systems that presided over Lucy Letby and the Staffordshire maternity scandal.

@founddory it is a joint thing - the Tory's poor record on investing in services and infrastructure and their lack of it seems giving a shit and Brexit. Brexit means less tax take, and reduced profits in many companies that have a strong exporting aspect to them- plus the £400billion spent on it has next to no fiscal benefits- sovereignity and flag waving doesn't put money in to the national/local coffers to replace the levels lost. .

Not only does that make you sound like a simpleton, it also misses the point. It’s about recognising that pensioners are increasingly likely to be more well off than the rest of society, and yet social and fiscal policy is designed to entrench that position. Other strata of society have almost every state benefit means tested, whereas the majority of pension benefits come only by virtue of age. And yes, the less well off tend to die earlier, benefiting even less from universal pension benefits.

If being called a simpleton is the price for calling out hypocrisy then i shall take it

My local hospital looks like a third world hospital. Lights off in the corridors, paint peeling, broken and taped-over chairs, broken equipment in the hallways. Constant, constant mistakes, have to triple check everything. I almost died due to them missing an infection until it was septic. It is really bad.

God that sounds awful, where is it? My dad and I are both being treated at the NHS Treatment Centre at QMC and it was wonderful each time we went. It was like private treatment but without having to pay.

You were called a simpleton because you have no real understanding of the situation.

That much is obvious to anybody who deals with economics, finance, and pensions.

Oh yes you know more than me so i concede to your intelligence

It's in North London. To be fair the other one close to us is still amazing, people get referred there from all over the country, so it does seem like the good ones are still good. But it's scary how much some have declined.

Intelligence has little to do with it.

Its knowledge and experience you lack.

I see no hypocrisy only that the economy is fucked in part (also Brexit and Ukraine) due to a massive increase in Government debt from measures taken in the Covid crisis in order to stop an increase in the death rate of those most at risk- which was in large part pensioners in particular the over 80s.

So it only seems fitting that those same pensioners are asked to pay for this debt through a later pension age, abolishing the triple lock, NI on pension income, tax the winter fuel allowance etc. Rather than finding the money from the working and younger population and education budget.

There is something seriously wrong for the country's future when the annual bill for the state pension (£112 billion) is greater than the education budget (£105 billion).

@1dayatatime @manontroppo I have an exceptionally well off relative - he has no kids, never been married , goes nowhere, in his 80s - large non contrib public pension - he can afford to pay far more in contributions than my 25 year old son in a flatshare in London paying into a pension plus student loan on 35k. Far too many very comfortably off older people have a really cushy number going relative to younger people starting out and with young families.

Am I being stupid in pointing out that if the objective was to protect the over 80s, it was a fairly stupid choice as by definition anyone over 75 is on the outbound conveyor belt. Of course, education should get a higher share because that's the future, but spending the money well seems harder than most think. Also we are a bit short of children to educate and we have a population overhang of older folk, who will in due course, bequeath what they have to their children and grandchildren.

@Crikeyalmighty you are generally sensible... presumably your uncle is putting the cash he doesn't need to spend now into investments. So at sometime after his death, you and your younger relatives will inherit. Or would you like to advocate an age structured tax schedule, so the amount you pay increases with your age, as your "needs" decrease?

Try to use some logic here.

The average inheritance age is 61 (as those OAPs die in their 80s and 90s).

That is too late for someone to start a family.

Waiting for inheritance makes the problem worse because it does not make it easier for the children of those OAPs to have children of their own.

When people say "well you will inherit X when they die" its basically an obvious copout.

The income the OAPs have needs to be taxed now do that it can actually be useful for the younger generations (childcare, education).

@EffortlessDesmond Well he has 2 brothers still around. To be honest I would rather he spent it on wine, women and song- and paying more tax! it's on my Hs family not mine and we aren't close to him - and in all fairness he could leave it to the RSPCA or something- I never think along lines of inheritance

You don't have to have much over the basic state pension before seniors are paying tax!!! I promise you that anyone with a reasonable personal or occupational pension is still paying income tax.

@TheThinkingGoblin and @Crikeyalmighty ... sorry, I was being facetious! Of course there are no fixed rules on how anyone's uncle should distribute their estates but it seems a pity to die intestate and abdicate any choice in the matter.

blimey, OP here, only just realised this thread was still going! I started it in March after being in Spain. I am currently in France and I still broadly think the same thing - French towns are better maintained overall for sure. We did drive through an area of Paris that wasn’t great though and France does have social issues, especially in cities so maybe some of my initial post was a bit naive. But I still hold the same view broadly- that the U.K. has been asset stripped and so a lot of the functions of a nice society are on their knees/collapsing

Agreed.

It's entirely possible that we'll vote the Tories back in too.

I've never hoped so much that I'll be wron