To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

And yet many other countries manage land value taxes. Why should exceptional wealth earned on your property be excluded from tax? Council tax is already calculated based on size of house.

Wealth in assets is just a less liquid version of cash in the bank. I don’t see why we should subsidise asset rich, cash poor people ahead of asset poor, cash poor people, frankly. Our economy isn’t benefiting from people banking on asset price rises for wealth gains, instead of productive investment in the economy.

It's only on paper though

If you move it costs a lot and you still need somewhere to live then it is used to fund your care

You have paid for it with a mortgage in the first place

And you've been taxed on income you use to pay the mortgage so I don't agree

2nd homes fair enough

And you could argue that the people being subsidised are the ones who need benefits and social housing?

This, exactly.

big houses are going to be more affected by fuel prices so might fall in value anyway - if you decide to tax property then property will fall in value (depending on how big the tax is) - so the vast tax profit you were expecting will not materialise. I think that the majority of the population who own their own homes suddenly finding them worth very little would have a huge effect on the country - we would deflate hugely. No one buying anything . no company making profits. As no one spending.

There are a lot of old, large houses owned by older people in the country which are very difficult to heat. They are expensive to buy and heat. People can't afford them already. I don't see a working population that has already had deflation imposed on them by tiny wage increases and interest rates buying them now.

The Tory model is pay less tax, get less services, take personal responsibility. The Labour model is pay more, get better services, state responsibility

Really?

We've got, under the Tories, the highest tax levels for 70 years... yet some of the worst public services too!

When have the Tories ever introduced any policy based on "Personal Responsibility" ? Care to name a few!

What they actually do is make us pay for things again that we've already paid for by selling off public services.

While I am sympathetic to the abolition of the triple lock, the measure to be dropped would be the 2.65% uplift, which was included during the prolonged period of low interest rates from 2008 to ensure pensioners did get small increases. It worked, until late last year, as long as inflation (except house prices) was ticking along gently and wages increased slowly in tandem.

With inflation just coming back down to 7.9% and wages up by 8-15% (fitters have seen a 19% jump in their earnings in 12 months), any effect is going to be very very small.

However, given that we get almost the lowest state pension in the EU, the focus needs to be shifted to target the unfunded index-linked public sector pensions liability. There are not many private sector defined benefit pensions left since Gordon Brown's 1997 budget raid on the dividend tax credit, hence the switch to defined contribution pensions in which the pensioner takes all the investment risk.

@GPTec1 - I am not pro Tory, and when I say personal responsibility I mean that public services are typically cut and then people are expected to make the difference up themselves!

The rates at the moment are high. I'm paying the higher rates: I see no point in a Tory party that cannot even keep a low tax rate so that, as they want, I can spend privately to make up the difference.

They can't even do Conservative properly

Its almost as though massively increasing the countries population via unlimited mass immigration and encouraging the more feckless members of society to breed by rewarding them with generous benefits for doing so... is somehow proving to not be socio-economically beneficial.

@Anxioys fortunately, I don't think this government can stagger on much longer. They need time out of office.

I am very much looking forward to the Labour Party demonstrating their competence and unveiling the cornucopia of genius that's been brewing since 2008.

Well, okay some basic probity would be good.

Trying to compare UK state pensions with other European state pensions is incredibly misleading as in many countries the state pension and workplace are one and the same thing:

www.ii.co.uk/analysis-commentary/uk-state-pension-really-worst-europe-ii525935

Shocking? maybe. But understandable given Brexit, schadenfreude, a history of serfdom, working class snobbery, actively wanting to be ruled by a government that shafts the working class and poor and who get by on this very nicely as spreading hate divisiveness and appealing to deluded ego - 'if you've got a house job & car and your neighbour hasn't got all of that then you're better than him, almost like us really' - works well. & government know it. There's mostly denial of the state of Britain here but those who actually do get up and travel know what's what. After all its not as if you can't see it.

The UK does not have unlimited mass immigration. Other more successful countries have a much higher immigrant population and do very well in terms of social care, healthcare and pensions. And have public transport that works, clean well maintained streets.

How interesting. Can you tell me which other country had "much higher" official immigrant numbers than the 1.2million that entered the UK in 2022 (who knows just what the unofficial figure could be)... that country also being comparable in geographical size and size of resident population to the UK.

Feels like it where I am

This is disingenuous. Net migration is around 600 000.

Those old, hard to heat homes are generally occupied by pensioners, one third of whom are millionaires and also in receipt of the winter fuel allowance, as well as the fuel subsidies bought in during the CoL crisis.

I routinely employ non UK citizens for a range of jobs, from bottle washers through to professionals, and it’s mainly because the quality of UK applicants is poor - at interview, they knock spots off local candidates and are worth the time and effort of getting a visa. If we are serious about reducing immigration, we could start with investing in the education system.

You can easily make any gains in a property’s value subject to inflation, so you’d only pay tax on gains that outpace inflation. Any other form of savings (outside of ISAs) are taxed - why shouldn’t property be?

Germany had an official net migration figure of 1.46m in 2022, compared to our 600k (1.2m - 600k who left the UK)

But i agree, net migration is stupidly high, made worse by poaching skilled staff from developing countries, making their economies worse and even more people leave & HK migration.

Unlike EU migrants, many coming here now are bringing in families too.

The UK's problems would not be any different Brexit or not.
We are governed by the Conservatives, Brussels never decided our level of health service or park maintenance.
If you want to go and live in a European country you can do so, if not unreasonably, you meet their immigration criteria. Whining doesn't achieve anything.

@GPTec1 tell me about it- I work in a centre and a compAny there is doing face to face visas- it's large families and all of it mainly from Southern Asia and Phillipines- no Europeans or Americans or Australians and very few from Hong Kong too it seems. If it wasn't that I am gobsmacked at the numbers and the consequences I would find it quite amusing that those who voted for Brexit on racist grounds (and plenty did) are not quite getting what they thought they voted for - and this is legal entry- not the 'stop the boats' situation

@Daphnis156 thing is though post Brexit- not many do meet that criteria unless in very particular professions and most of the in demand countries within the EU have plenty of EU applicants- which is far easier to process - the UK are not on preferred status list for non EU either -

Its thinking like this that leads me to believe the UK is doomed.

Brexit materially reduced economic activity and tax collected.

That means you have LESS money for public spending.

Stop trying to deflect from the self-harm Brexit caused. These effects are now also starting to compound, which will make it even more difficult to fix.

You want to know what the economic reality is?

It will take DECADES to absorb and fix the Brexit damage along the internal damage caused by the Conservatives.

Thats decades of people with a much poorer quality of life.

That is serious because it will affect productivity (poorer health and education).

Tbh, most of the issues boil down to personal responsibility- if people didn’t litter, draw on buildings etc there would be no need to clean it up, there’s plenty of jobs but apparently just not convenient ones.

We’ve spent too long talking about rights and don’t drill responsibilities into kids.

There’s no pride allowed in the country, people slagging off the UK are part of the issue. We should bring kids up proud to be British rather than slagging it off at every opportunity. If people are proud of their country they are likely to treat it better.

Brexit materially reduced economic activity and tax collected
@TheThinkingGoblin

We have barely started to feel the impact of Brexit! Yes it's shit but that shit has barely touched the fan at this stage. It's years of under investment by the Tories that are responsible for most of the things people complain about on a daily basis. People like you who fixate on Brexit at the expense of laying the blame where it belongs (and where material change CAN actually happen) are part of the problem.