To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Precisely why its hard to be proud of this country overall.

Why can i cycle or drive 100s of miles in France without hitting deep crater sized pot holes?

Why is the Govt, even now, prioritising tax cuts when our councils and public services are so run down?

As pp said, likely as not, we'll vote back in this shower of xxxx next year too.

Yep… part of the reason I plan on moving to Europe once my kids finish school

We won't.

We'll vote them back in because of "small boats".

We get the government we deserve etc

Op I have to agree. I'm Irish living in Ireland with my English husband. Ireland has its fair share of issues as most countries do. In saying that after our trip over to the in laws this summer, a trip we have made annually for years, both of us cane away feeling that everything had a sense of decline. Issues with NHS (we have family working in it and elderly in laws using it), high st had so many closed shops and what was there was mainly charity shops and discount stores. Roads where horrendous came back with suspension issues with my car because of all the potholes. We were in the South West so not a traditionally poor area. Everyone also blaming all their problems on immigrants despite the area being pretty much exclusively white English 🙄

Probably because it is seen as bad having pride in Britain. We’re shot down about past actions which were similarly undertaken by other countries inc France. In France nationalism and national pride is encouraged. In the Uk it’s fashionable to say how crap we are.

Does your French BF feel pride in France regarding the very high suicide rates, the appalling treatment of the disabled? The growing issues with the far right? The terrible racism? Does she feel pride in the genocides carried out in France in the last 1000 years? Have you caught a train into Paris and seen the amount of run down buildings covered in graffiti- far more than on a similar trip into London.

@OMG12

You think that the decolonisation history has led to pot holes in the roads?

I think the constant criticism of britain for its past (which was mirrored by countries like France) had led to a lack of pride and that lack of pride means we don’t do much about any issues.

France has a better healthcare system because middle earners pay much more

@OMG12

Other countries (Netherlands, Germany) have decolonisied and/or acquired a better understanding of their past (and that is exactly what decolonisation is) and have good infrastructure.

Are you suggesting that the UK needs white-washed, propaganda as history in order to take pride in itself?

Bit of a depressing view.

@OMG12 I don't think lack of pride is anything to do with this. It's perfectly possible to have a great affection for the UK and it's culture and history but be aware that it isn't being governed very well, or cared for very well. The lack of pride is coming from the top in one way and no amount of flag waving can hide the fact that a lot of things are in decline due to the direction the country has taken- we seem to have the worst of many aspects of the US and none of the better things. The lack of pride is also May I say coming from some bottom feeding individuals too - throwing shit out car windows, participating in stuff like crash for cash, chucking rubbish on the floor in towns - A total lack of parenting in some cases- it's become a very 'im all right Jack' society and a lack of giving a shit about young people has led to a great deal of disenchantment with many young people too. My son is 25, hard working, reasonable salary , kind and caring and the best he can hope for is maybe a shared ownership in London- he was born there , has lived all over but likes living there and wants to stay- he frequently has huge bouts of anxiety about money and saving and pensions and housing and the direction the country is going. We lived in Denmark for 20 months, he saw the difference and liked what he saw- yet he loves the Uk , supports labour and is very internationalist. Things like sure start and connexions gave a sense of 'community' and belonging - all scrapped under this gvt - I honestly believe vast amounts of the country have turned into the Wild West!!! And it's all very well living in a lovely little well kept village somewhere (as many do) and thinking all is fine and dandy - it simply isn't.

Well exactly and these countries aren’t constantly slagged off. Maybe if people just moved on and concentrated and present day issues things might be better.

I agree with much of what you wrote. There does seem a large contingent with an aim for the bottom mentality in this country. But a lot of that is due to poor education, poor parenting and lack of self respect. It ties back to pride in the country and pride in yourself.

Labour will do sod all to change any of this! They have their own agenda too. One that doesn’t bode well for certain ethnicities or women. Businesses and therefore the general population will suffer. They have no real plan.

Yes Scandinavia is amazing it’s clean, well organised etc. I’d more there.
They are very proud of their heritage we were recently in Norway. A lot of homes were flying flags. They have amazing public services etc but they also have issues with the far right.

There should be more help for people like your son who is taking responsibility for himself.

@OMG12

WW2

What about it???

@OMG12

Well, the Germans do get just a bit "slagged" off about that.

Actually they don’t, most people have moved on and realise it’s better to forgive and forget.

My husband always says when he comes home from travelling how much nicer it is almost anywhere than here and how bad things have got in the U.K. compared to almost anywhere else his employer sends him. He hates it.

@OMG12

Forgive and forget WW2?

He didn't used to say it but the last few years he says it's just so noticeable what a state our country is in.

Well most sane people won’t blame current Germans (or even the vast majority of the Germans at the time for WW2).

“Forgive and forget” is a turn of phase signifying moving on. - we should remember the lessons and the sacrifices made during the war and vow never to repeat them but no sane person is going to slag of current day Germany for WW2 or stop them being proud of their country. Germany and it’s preceding Princedoms etc has, over the centuries, contributed substantially to western civilisation

@OMG12 I agree. To be frank I'm not sure things would radically improve under labour too- however I do think they will come with fresh impetus , a different mindset , ideas and a change of 'vibe' - and I do think that is needed as I think this bunch have totally run out of steam and created a mindset that it's ok to lie, enrich your mates , reign in any negative media and feed the percentage of the population that aren't very political a pile of bullshit. I'm not radically to the left or right- I'm in the world of pragmatism and if stuffs not working, then it needs reassessing and looking how others do it - I'm of the same opinion on the NHS for example.

Spent a lot of time in Scandinavia in the 90s, Swedes used to say then that everything in the UK is old and run down... whilst its true, we have also upgraded and rebuilt a heck of lot, i think St Pancras station is absolutely brilliant but its a rose in a sea of thorns.

I don't agree we aren't encouraged to have pride in the UK, i just think people are finally waking up & realising we have been badly Governed, i mean did we all hear Sunak say he is hurting himself to help us????

Is he for real?? he is almost a billionaire, what does he know? he recently spent £1200 on a family meal, thats what a Adult Community Carer would take home in a month.

FWIW i used to have huge pride in the UK, not any more, just embarrassment now.

Yeah I’m very much a floating voter and think we benefit from revolving the ruling party every now and then. I’ve voted for all the major parties in the past but there’s something about Labour that concerns me atm.

Tbh I think we need to replace the NHS with a European type system and accept higher taxes. But I wouldn’t pay higher taxes to support the NHS its broken

@GPTec1 Yep- see my earlier post- A lot of us 'negative nellies' feel this way because we actually do have affection and pride in the UK- we have a lot going for us- but the UK is being left to rot due to poor planning, poor central funding, poor priorities and extremely bad governance, particularly in the last 8 years or so. I read so many posts on here from intelligent business minded and social minded women who would be an absolute asset in politics, people with real life experience , not as Dominic Cummings once said 'we need more weirdos ' - no Dominic we really don't.yet these women will not be going into politics because if like me you have any common sense you don't want your family and history dragged up , you don't want to be stalked by some fat puffy fingered Daily mail journo, you don't want tales in the press of your failed business etc, etc. to go into it these days you either have to be super squeaky clean or the skin of a rhinoceros - which is why you get so many oddbods like Truss, Braverman, Coffey or Lee Anderson or Gullis etc - There is little incentive for many to have worthwhile but modestly paid jobs anymore, and the fact that many young people think the way out of it is stuff like getting involved in a bit of dealing , betting or Only Fans is a disgrace.

@OMG12 yes- I'm with you on the NHS I'm afraid- they do have similar in Denmark and Sweden but obviously much higher levels of tax , higher wages and much smaller and fitter populations. I think we have to be looking to Germany, France, Netherlands etc. I think Starmer actually would be good- I think he's quite a shrewd cookie- I doubt he would do much to frighten the horses but I do think wouldn't stand for much shit either and I do think he's not self serving and at the moment I think anything would be an improvement- even if it creates a more positive 'vibe' . I actually vote Lib Dem but that's because I live in an area where we have a Lib Dem MP and yes she responds to the odd email I've sent too- which was refreshing. I can also say the shadow minister of culture got back to me too quickly too when I contacted them about some aspects in our industry where Brexit is causing real issues and asked a member of her team to arrange a meeting- I was impressed by that.