To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Yep, that’s Tories for you. But then apparently that’s what the UK are happy to vote for again and again.

Well hopefully the CEOs are paying tax. How do you stop that? Ridiculous to rant about stuff but not offer the solution.
Labour won't change this. We already lose some of our highest paid Execs to the US.
There are always unintended consequences. I think the 16 hour week excluding businesses from pension payments was to encourage people back into full time work - but has backfired as a cheap way for businesses to employ people .

In my opinion our whole welfare state is going to collapse in on itself. As the population has grown, it has become unsustainable. We simply can’t afford it any more and I just wish there would be more openness and honesty about it. I do wonder whether the long term plan is to make the NHS so bad that we accept the need for reform.

My children have private healthcare in their salary package and are just not vested in the NHS the way I am. In ten years time, who will fight for a crumbling wreck?

Our politicians are of such poor quality (not just the Tories - Angela Rayner, Ed Davey etc) that I see no hope in the future.

The only reason private health insurance is affordable in the UK is because we have the NHS though. Without it, it would be astronomical.

My fil was in good health his whole life, he also had private health insurance most of his life. As soon as he got old, his provider wouldn't insure him anymore, nor could he find another insurer. For most people, the vast majority of healthcare we ever use is in the later years of life, insurers won't touch this, or if they do its with so many exclusions it's useless.

Very well said and I entirely agree with you.

Is it not possible to recognise that there are various different players across the socio-economic spectrum who set out to intentionally give themselves a comfortable life, all at the expense of the 'squeezed middle' i.e. the productive, full time working average earners.

I should add, that despite paying premiums his whole working life, when he did need healthcare in later life, 100% of it came vir the NHS.
Same with my MIL. She also had private health insurance until elderly (when nobody would insure her) she needed a hip replacement in her late 50s while she still had private health insurance (and had for decades) the insurer found a way to get out of paying for it and it was done on the NHS.

With regard our highest paid execs moving to the US, is there any actual evidence that you get better results if you offer £10 mil in pay instead of say, 500k? Genuine question.
Looking at our women's sports teams compared to the men, I would say not. Although that's just antidote, I would be interested if the numbers did show higher pay at the top equals better results.

The blunt issue is that basic tax rates are not enough to sustain public services given our demographics. We are an ageing population and not a very healthy one either.

The Tory model is pay less tax, get less services, take personal responsibility. The Labour model is pay more, get better services, state responsibility.

The issue is that this last bit, about responsibility, seems to have actually ended up like this.

Pay less tax, get less services, state responsibility. This is the worst because the population (because we vote for this outcome) is not working full time, or eating healthily to avoid diabetes, or planning a pension beyond the basic state level. All of that gets picked up by the state. It's the worst of all worlds.

Please don’t think I’m a fan of private health care - I’m not. But in the Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia insurance is compulsory and their care is much better. Our model isn’t working.

There are multiple insurance-based models around the world (as in France and Germany to name two proximate countries) that continue to fund medical care to the end of life @Kendodd . Why do people persist with the notion that it's the NHS or the US?

Nobody would invent the NHS in its current form today, for the size and demographics of the UK population. It's never been copied, although it scores highly on some counts even now.

@Greywhippet ah but that's because at the rich end of the spectrum it's 'just business' - these people aren't 'fleecing' state benefits- they are fleecing 'the state' for their own ends. It's like the worker who has 3 weeks off with a dodgy back - everyone tittle tattles about it but ignores the CEO on £300,000 who comes in 8 hours a week, goes and plays golf during working hours , has 5 hour lunches regularly and no one dares comment.

Health insurances in the Netherlands costs about £1000/year for adults (less for those on low incomes). Maybe the NHS could be just as good if it had an extra £1000pp to spend?

There is money in this country and it is going somewhere. Look at the staggering increase in UK billionaires in the last 30 years. We're being fleeced.
see here

You know most uni students don't pay back their student loans?
You have to earn a certain amount before they start taking anything and after 30 years they write it off

Whether the UK has fallen apart can be quite subjective depending on your own personal experiences so I prefer to look at the real data and to be blunt we are totally screwed:

financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/slow-growing-uk-faces-reckoning-over-2-6-trillion-debt-pile/wcm/0ef30702-4852-48c7-afbe-f3fe6361d422/amp/

Whilst I firmly believe the Tories need to go and go quickly I also recognise that Labour will inherit a poisoned chalice and there is not a lot they can do about it either.

It is completely unsustainable so by way of (drastic and very unpopular ) solutions I would suggest :

Increase the state pension age sooner
Get rid of the pension triple lock
Move the NHS to a more insurance based set up
Relax planning laws
Abolish the dual 325k inheritance tax threshold and the 7 year gift loophole
Shift the tax burden from income to wealth / assets

Where I would spend more money is education and policing (to keep what will be a very angry society in check).

Honestly, I don't know why we put up with it. In fact we don't just put up with it we cheer for it and vote for ever increasing inequality.

MerylSqueak
There is money in this country and it is going somewhere. Look at the staggering increase in UK billionaires in the last 30 years. We're being fleeced.
see here

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Which is why shifting the tax burden from income to wealth makes sense:

It never ceases to amaze me how many people vote against their own best interests. For example, I have relatives in a Tory-run county that was declared bankrupt due to mismanagement a few years ago (making national news). Does that stop people there from voting them back in? Apparently not - they get in every time. How people can equate the Conservatives as the more fiscally responsible is beyond me.

And those even further to the right who would support Farage et al - how would they cope in the private insurance system he advocates?

@1dayatatime - these are precisely the things that have got to be faced. What is damning is that these are policies that for the most part beneficial to older, asset rich voters.

I don't necessarily want this situation where the cost of ageing is socialised but the young get less as less. It should be the other way around.

In France at the moment and it makes my local town (Cambridge) look like a dump in comparison.

We need a wealth tax, we need people to develop a sense of collective responsibility (yes, your council tax should pay for street cleaners and gardeners to make the whole environment nicer for everyone) and yes this means you can’t just do what you like whenever you like. We should also rejoin the EU as soon as possible. I am fed up with English exceptionalism- we’re just exceptionally shite at the moment.

We also get the politicians we deserve.

Where do you start this tax

If it is the persons only residence and they don't own any other properties then I don't think so

I think some people are not paying capital gains tax on other residences and this needs looking into

@manontroppo I agree and also think there needs to be a big independent audit and assessment of each local authority spending and function.

It stands to reason if local authorities are not being centrally funded anymore-then some local authorities will have far more income available per head than others where far fewer people are paying into the system, yet there are more demands on the funding.

The current system simply doesn't work and councils are left trying to bolster funds by non stop parking and speeding fines for in many cases minuscule offences-

I don't think the UK is worse than other similar European Countries. The reality is, that when travelling or even living abroad. We will be mostly in either tourist or more affluent areas. Dig beneath the surface of any major City or Town in eg france, Germany, Spain, Italy and you will find similiar poverty and lack of spending on infrastructure.

I do agree that we need to look at how we are funding the NHS along with how the NHS spends the money it gets. For instance paying fortunes to PFI companies to build and maintain hospitals was never going to be cost effective.

I expect its a similar stat for the increase in those that are 'only' millionaires.

Executive pay is now obscene in this country and that's before you take into account the fact that the vast majority of them will be paying themselves in a "tax efficient" way.

Here's my take on it... I grew up in the 70's/80's living on a street of typical post war 3 bed semi's on the outskirts of a large city.
One of our neighbours was the owner of a reasonably large dairy product firm employing about 200 people, several of his employees, delivery drivers, production line workers etc also lived in the same street all in the same 3 bed semi's.
I imagine if a business of that size and scale and turnover exists today the owner will be living in an £800k detached in the country with a £100k car on the drive and probably a nice little holiday home by the coast... whilst those employees will now be renting some shabby 2 up 2 down in a run down area.