To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Yeah, Labour have been given an open goal and seem to be trying their best to miss it.

@Offspringsoffspring i think you have mixed me up with someone else.

I’ve lived in Spain for 10 years and own property in 2 places there. I lived in Britain for 20. I live 9 months of the year in Spain and 3 in Britain. I’m not seeing it through rose tinted spectacles on holiday. I have never seen nor heard anyone speak about it like you are, so I questioned that, because it doesn’t reflect my experience.

I could list negative things about Spain (attitudes towards foreigners is my bugbear) but I have never seen what you’ve described and I’m allowed to question that.

carnivals: Tolosa (the most famous one), Donostia, Bilbao, Valencia (also fallas), some small villages, Barca a while ago. All got cleaned up the next day.

@MarshaBradyo @Clavinova what about a title like “article from AA about medicine shortage in spain” or whatever?

Yes indeed. The majority of them will already be voting Tory long before they hit pension age.

So , if you are going to compare countries, what are their tax rates and cost of health care and do they have NHS trusts or something similar ? If Labour are offering to support all local services then what exactly is their strategy ? Higher tax , higher NI ? Whilst encouraging small businesses ? Anything radical on the NHS ? They have access to all the government figures so I think now is the time for actual answers . And also they must address the 45000 (approx) women with penises.

I say this as a floating voter and employer .
I see the biggest problem as the NHS and social care and costs of childcare as the level of unemployment is low in our area so we struggle to recruit.

They really do. Where is Starmer's fire? He seem to fence sit on almost everything at the moment. Maybe he doesn't want to be PM, given the utter shit show he will inherit.

Last time I had to go to A&E was ten years ago. I was seen in one hour. Two weeks ago I had to go again. I had to wait eleven hours, writhing in agony. Everywhere I live pavements are collapsing. Pot holes everywhere. Wages haven’t moved an inch in ten years. This country has gone to the dogs.

I’m aware of that, but I was talking about the Costa Brava, which you said you visited once and then went on to talk as though I was wrong because your Basque friends hadn’t said so. And that it was ‘just a bit of confetti’. Which it really, really isn’t. I haven’t visited any of those festivals, great that it was just confetti and tidied up. I’ve seen litter, glass? Hundreds of balloons deliberately released and tonnes of firework debris just left in mountains.

How can you say to someone ‘I’ve visited that area once and I didn’t see that so you’re wrong’. Im not going to waste my time trying to convince you. Just because you haven’t experienced something doesn’t mean it isn’t true and it’s odd that you would argue and suggest I’m not being truthful based on that.

QuentininQuarantino
Hey Clav! If you click this button you can put the link in without it taking up half the page, and give it a snappy title.

A few days ago I was criticised for condensing someone's 40-line post into 2 lines - so make up your minds.

It was the graphs thread way back when that had the rule no converted links

I think it’s because anything can be hidden and lead to something bad

Where did I say you were wrong? I only asked where it was because it isn’t my experience at all! I accept it’s a filthy shithole if you say so! You know totally better. I’m surprised people still go there and say how beautiful it is, but I bow to your superior knowledge of the Costa brava coast and it’s terrifying beaches, as a previous resident. Tranquila, pfff.

That wasn’t me, I’m a lunch break poster and as such, big fan of tl;dr ! it was just a suggestion, each to their own!

They really do. Where is Starmer's fire? He seem to fence sit on almost everything at the moment. Maybe he doesn't want to be PM, given the utter shit show he will inherit.

I would imagine they are biding their time and letting the Tories dig their own grave until closer to a general election. The Tories seem to be so unpopular at the moment that I noticed 3 candidates for the local election here (in a true blue constituency) have switched from Conservative to independent this year.

I do agree that it's going to be difficult for Labour though given what they will inherit. There are so many things to turn around in a precarious economic state. It's taken 13 years of underfunding to get us here and it will take longer than 5 years to undo some of the damage. I will be interested to see what they prioritise in a manifesto.

Okay, I’m not discussing anything with someone who is going to have a toddler tantrum because they can’t possibly believe that someone else might have a different experience to them.

P.S, you can turn your own words on yourself. You expect me to believe what you’re saying just because you live there. But I do believe you, because that’s seems like a normal thing to do, believe someone with more experience. But whatever.

Oh come off it, the entire Brexit campaign was propped up by "noone could live with out is, they'll be banging the door down to get trade deals with us". There was definitely a huge sense of superiority or perceived desirability that just doesn't translate into what other countries thought/ think.

And @QuentininQuarantino at no point did I say it wasn’t beautiful. Your childish hyperbole isn’t going to put words in my mouth.

Good post.

I said I believe you… I’m confused at why you’re so riled up.

Totally agree. The roads around our way are like something from a third world country.... potholes upon potholes....

The infrastructure's certainly suffering in the UK compared to e.g. France (can't comment on Spain - haven't been recently).

But didn't the Spanish go through a protracted period of some areas just not paying their public sector workers? 4 months in this area in the article below. Everywhere's got problems. Can you imagine people just not getting paid for 4 months here?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17538224

Being sarcastic and rude is having an adult conversation and telling someone you believe them? I’m not the one with my knickers in a twist here shouting hyperbole and stomping my foot because someone dared to enquire why their way was the only way. Or their Basque mates should I say.

Anyway, I’m not continuing this. As I said before, glad you have better experiences and they’re different to mine.

@MooseBreath 100%.

I left the UK and never looked back. We are currently starting the process of applying for nationality in our host country. It's so sad, I used to be so proud to be from the UK, but not anymore.

I think you misinterpreted me totally, im
not being sarcastic. But i also can’t keep going with this as you’re getting aggressive and I’ve failed to Get my point across in the way I meant it. Que tengas un buen día.

A colleague very sadly had call to use French hospice at home care and it was excellent.

I've sadly known three friends/ neighbours who've required hospice at home care here in the UK in the last few years and they received excellent care.

Meanwhile a friend living in a fairly rural area of Germany is facing the loss of her excellent local hospital, built 20 years ago, because of a declining population in the area and a shortage of medical staff. But we don't have to rely on anecdotes when there's data available.

Germany and France are suffering the same lack of doctors as the UK.
https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/germanys-looming-gp-shortage-threatens-regional-coverage

https://inspain.news/collapse-of-spanish-primary-healthcare-and-ae-imminent/

I'm not saying we're not facing huge problems here in the the UK, but the rest of Europe has the same issues.

Been living in Utrecht, The Netherlands until recently. Has a high density population but higher quality of life. Clean streets, no potholes, shops are busy with no massive closures as the UK. Hospitals and dentists are years ahead and not to mention social services, old people are well cared for as well as mental health patients. Many people work a four day week, so more free time for family. The UK has somehow deteriorated to a pre war way of life where people struggle to make ends meet with a basic support system. How will the UK compete in 10 or 20 years when our education system is on its knees. I despair!