To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

and a ridiculous concentration of wealth in non-productive property.

This is true but many don't seem to understand why it's not a good thing to have so much tied up in property.

Not to say people are talking nonsense but I know many who are leaving their countries for greener pastures, people in the Netherlands, Italy, Canada and New Zealand, and i've never looked down on them or disparaged their country. It's just life across the world it seems and I wouldn't have a go at them for the nation they were born in.

I hope people don't feel it's acceptable to sneer at others because of where they were born.

I never saw any of these empty shelves when I went shopping. You'll find the real reason is that supermarkets have been underpaying farmers to the extent that they go out of business. Farmers can't sell at the prices demanded by supermarkets so the shelves went empty. No shortages at all in independent greengrocers - but then they pay a fair price to farmers.

@Folkishgal
“ Highly reccomend reading about it, you won't learn about it there as no one wants to talk about the war crimes Spain has commited against the Catalan people over the past 100 years. “

Do you really need to distort history to suit your narrative? What happened in 1936 was a coup that facists started against the republican democratic government, which led to a civil war. The civil war was not a war between Spanish and Catalans (how dare you?), it was a war of facists against supporters of the republican government. This included people from all different regions in Spain, which equally suffered in the war and the subsequent dictatorship. Please, don’t change history to suit your nationalist narrative, and respect the memory of ALL victims! Some of us are not Catalans and still have relatives buried in mass graves because of fighting for the freedom of everyone, including Catalans.

One of our friends from Barcelona is currently living in London driving a bus because the unemployment situation was so bad there. His wife is still in Spain but she doesn’t always get paid and they need a regular income.
Does this mean all of Spain is in decline -no but it does highlight that there are structural problems just like everywhere else.
DH is North African with family living in France. The life experience of a first or second gen immigrant in the banlieues is very different to that of a native French family in a nice town.

I’m not sure generalisations work when there are so many variables.

I don’t think pensioners are getting one over me - they are just an example of a group of people who relentlessly vote for their own self interest, rather than for the greater good (their grandchildren’s education, for example, or ability to get on the housing ladder)

More lovely ageism manontroppo. Do you actually know any retired people? You sound like one of those muppets who dramatically announces that they cannot speak to a family member ever again because they voted for Brexit.

Well we are not in a good place but I think you are wearing rose tinted glasses.

France is worse to be fair

Excellent point. Supermarkets have a great deal to answer for and their treatment of farmers is appalling.

Totally agree!

There shouldn't need to be people employed to clear up litter or dog shit. People should clean up after themselves. Litter isn't a governmental responsibility, it's a personal one.

We need better enforcement, but the solutions to that are technical ones, nothing to do with public spending. A DNA database for dogs and printing vehicle registrations on takeaway containers for example.

I live in Denmark, just south of Copenhagen. I love it and think it's doing much better than back home at the moment,

BUT... in the interest of fairness, my previous address was a ten minute walk from a mall in a western CPH suburb, and I used to play "count the dog shits on the way there." A ten minute walk and I neared three figures...

Nicer where I live now but it was hardly a bad area so I thought it was only fair to point out that Europe isn't entirely a dog shit free zone.

I've just been listening to a discussion between several Times columnists on the radio about how our potholes problem reflects the state of the country as a whole. We can't even get the small things fixed. Never mind produce any big ideas to fix the NHS, social care, energy security, net zero etc.

I live in a nice village in the south east and you can see how it has deteriorated over the last 10 years. The road and footpath surfaces are crumbling, the trees and bushes on the roadsides aren't maintained and have been allowed to encroach so much that many footpaths have practically disappeared. The poo bins are often overflowing. The roads out of the village are scattered with flytipped rubbish.

My 87yo dad, who has voted Tory at every election of his life, admitted to me recently that he thinks the country is going to the dogs. He knows that this Government is to blame with their years of austerity. If they wanted to 'fix the roof while the sun was shining' they would have funded public services sufficiently that they could better withstand shocks like the pandemic and war in Europe. Instead they were already on their knees by 2020.

Dog shit and rubbish in the streets are down to residents who live here surely.Why are so many people so filthy.Money could be better spent in parks and gardens than paying people to clean up our streets because of the mindless individuals who don’t care.

Excellent point. Supermarkets have a great deal to answer for and their treatment of farmers is appalling.

I don't disagree with the treatment of farmers here but not all blame can be placed at the door of the supermarket. Supermarkets exist in all countries and agriculture is thriving in other places.

Supermarkets are driving our UK farmers out of business as they will not pay a fair price for the food they produce. People in the UK are not used to paying what food actually costs and want the cheapest of everything - meat should be expensive FFS!

Sorry - did not mean to derail.

With age comes wisdom😉

Litter and potholes are the responsibility of the local council. I'm no fan of the current government but it's madness to blame the lack of local road repairs on the Tories.

Not mowing and tidying shrubs is likely to be good for wildlife. My area looks more unkempt than it used to because the LA isn't going round spraying weedkiller in order to kills weeds and also bees and other insects.

Is there anything to stop a ranting householder from taking a pair of secateurs and tidying up the shrubs planted on the verge near their house? No. Going and picking up some litter? No. Places like Switzerland and Germany are far more civic minded than the UK. People go out and pick up litter and are actively involved in keeping their communities looking nice. Get involved in your community council. Contact your district council.

I know what the response on here is going to be: you're going to say 'Why should I, I pay council tax'. And there we have it.

So I walked out of my hotel in Spain this morning and within five minutes I’d come
across a homeless lady, a half naked man with one arm begging and a load of lucky lucky men running away from the police! This is not a criticism of Spain, it’s highlighting that there’s social problems in every country.

Litter and potholes may be the responsibility of local government, but central government funding to local authorities has been cut year on year since 2010. Local authorities can't afford to fix the roads, they've been cut to the bone in many areas.

A quick scroll through the worldwide crime statistics shows that the UK is a safer country than most . Anecdotally, I have never met anyone here who knows anyone who has been murdered or violently attacked. This is in sharp contrast to my home country where it is common. I’m very aware that it does happen far too often here, but my point is that it is statistically far less likely to happen here than in many other countries. I feel very safe walking round London at night but would never dream of doing this in certain cities I have lived in or travelled to.

Well i know 3 farmers,i buy raw milk at the farm which is 2.40 per 2 litres, supermarket milk is like 1.65 for 2.2l? They still make money selling to the supermarkets and people like me are the small fish, another steady income is selling to the schools.

one farmer has 6 kids,owns the farm and the land, the eldest 4 are all in universities away from home ,have their own horses waiting at home etc. second farmer is a child free owns 2 farms, has too much cash around the house he joked that he cba to take it to the bank and enjoys travelling with his girlfriend when his brother is in charge of the farm and rents other out. Third farmer again multiple generation thing, the adult children go to uni in another city where they have their own place,car and horses at home.

not saying it applies to all but the farmers i know are not rough up and enjoy benefits of their hard physical
labour

Litter and potholes are the responsibility of the local council. I'm no fan of the current government but it's madness to blame the lack of local road repairs on the Tories.

Government grants to local councils have been slashed since 2010.

Places like Switzerland and Germany are far more civic minded than the UK. People go out and pick up litter and are actively involved in keeping their communities looking nice

People are also more likely to not leave litter.
I have never seen rubbish apocalypse scenes in parks towards the evening where I grew up in central europelike in UK😳
Take it fucking with you dirty buggers😳 (general public)

People in the U.K. pay far less for food as a proportion of their income than in other areas of Europe than in other countries, hence the other countries being prioritised when there are shortages and farmers in the U.K. not wanting to supply when they will be making a loss.