To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

What do you mean by ‘right now’ @TheColourofspring? Because I lived in Spain for a long time and couldn’t wait to get back to the U.K. if you’re there on holiday or for a short period and haven’t actually tried to live there then quite frankly you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. You’ve got rosy coloured glasses on and YBVU.

Life is not as simple as it seems and things are not as good. Recent strikes saw litter all over a nearby city to us, the healthy and safety regulations are bonkers, I’ve never seen so many dangerous things here there and everywhere. Sorting things out, such as paperwork is crazy. And rates are increasing the same as other places. Healthcare is expensive.

you can see bits of other places and think life is perfect and the U.K. is a dump but when you fully integrate yourself and actually learn how things work it is dramatically different.

and protests in France?
I think the infrastructure in UK isn't as good as its neighbouring countries but other than that other countries have similar social issues.

The dog shit is EVERYWHERE! The beaches are covered in litter, condoms etc and there’s no beach cleans etc. walk in the mountains and there’s litter everywhere.

The Spanish love to smash glass and the cigarette butts in children’s playgrounds.

As I said in my last post, YABU OP as you’ve seen a tiny snapshot of something and assumed it’s life. It’s really isn’t.

I think it’s going to take a major crisis or the complete die off of the boomer generation, so that the government no longer drives policy to appease the pensioners

This proves I @YouSoundLovely's point nicely, you seem to think today's pensioners are somehow getting one over on you.

Pensioners are the most likely demographic to get out and vote. Of course political parties are going to want to attract that vote.

But this is exactly what people are doing here - going on holiday and waving lyrical about how amazing things are.

Having lived in Europe it’s just not true. I have several German friends and things are not all peachy - especially in the east where life is fucking tough.

You can’t go on holiday or a kids bloody school trip and think that’s what life is, it’s not comparable.

Where abouts in spain is this? There are some non-tourist beaches where crap from the sea accumulates but i've been all over spain and it's not as you describe in the vast majority of places.

Though they will leave their litter, coffee cups, meal boxes etc on tables and benches.

No it doesn’t - the point is that government policy is being made to fit the benefits of one self interested strata of society, rather than something that works well for everyone. I don’t think pensioners are getting one over me - they are just an example of a group of people who relentlessly vote for their own self interest, rather than for the greater good (their grandchildren’s education, for example, or ability to get on the housing ladder). It appears to be too much to expect that the majority of voters care about society as a whole in the UK.

And before you start - I know not all pensioners are like this.

People saying they went on holiday to Spain and it was amazing is not evidence. Evidence is NHS waiting times and the weakest growth rate in the G7.

Costa Brava. And it really is like this, lots of tourist and non-tourist beaches. And in towns. I loved along that coast for a long time until recently, it really is like this. Glass and dog shit everywhere.

@Offspringsoffspring which part of Spain was that!? I’ve lived in the Pyrenees/Euskadi region for 10 years and have never seen anything like that! Even in the ugliest industrial towns like Éibar. There are street cleaners every morning, beach cleaning vehicles after every storm. Dogs aren’t allowed on beaches apart from specific ones in winter anyway. Also have a flat down in Valencia village and it’s beautifully kept (with eu grants). I do not recognise the picture you have painted at all.

And @Irequireausername it’s not just ‘crap from the sea’ it’s locals - yes locals - who leave rubbish and dog mess everywhere, especially during carnival or celebration times. the mess from fireworks all over the countryside is unbelievable.
Dogs are chaos, they’re off lead often and allowed to do whatever they like.

Lots of park keepers who make things aesthetically pleasing but that doesn’t override the other issues.

As I said, Costa Brava. I lived there until recently, it really is like this. I am not making it up. It’s not worse than here but it’s not better than here by any means. I would say for dog muck and litter we’re on par.

But childcare provision is much better, university education is free and the subsidised health care is fantastic. A colleague very sadly had call to use French hospice at home care and it was excellent.

And @QuentininQuarantino the dogs were allowed on all the beaches I saw except for during the summer, fairly similar to here I guess. The local dog park was disgusting, never took my dog there because it was full of dog mess.

I love Spain and the Spanish, but this idea that they’re totally different and cleaning everything up and putting their littler in the bin is bonkers. They love graffiti, all over historic buildings, including in Barcelona, and they love to smash glass.

I also work in international dispute resolution and agree with these comments.
Nobody is rude enough to express their views as "pity", obviously, but raised eyebrows/mild concern about the general direction of travel, sure.

I have only been to the costa brava once but I’m really surprised none of my basque friends who holiday there every year have mentioned that. I’ve never seen it anywhere else in Spain though, or heard anyone else mention it.

And if you lived in Spain you know they love to complain. My friends complain furiously about the one pothole we have in our neighborhood and I never know what to say. Or the fact our state primary school class with a full
time TABhas accepted a twentieth child so they are worried that there won’t be enough attention for the kids.

After carnival obviously you have confetti along the parade routes until the street cleaners come, why would that bother anyone..

It is not just pensioners who are more likely to vote Tory. People over 39 are more likely to vote Tory than any other party. It is inexplicable to me, but there you go.

TheColourofspring
I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities...
Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit).

How odd that Spain has had the same problem:

https://murciatoday.com/spanish-pharmacies-prepare-for-a-serious-allergy-medication-shortage-this-spring_2051459-a.html
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/12/02/amoxicillin-supply-problems-hit-spain-amid-a-wave-of-respiratory-infections/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spain-suffers-amid-severe-shortage-of-drugs/2805359
https://www.politico.eu/article/health-care-pharma-why-is-europe-running-out-of-medicines-and-whats-being-done-about-it/

Also not disputing that they make a mess, but the council tax pays for street cleaners (at least it does in Valencia and comunidad euskal herria) maybe in costa brava they have shit representatives.

im not a dog person and I would be incandescent if I saw dog mess on our beach.

Hey Clav! If you click this button you can put the link in without it taking up half the page, and give it a snappy title.

Confetti?!?! What carnivals are you going to where they just use confetti?

Okay, well you clearly don’t want to hear what I’m saying and that’s fine. I love Spain but I’m not seeing it through rose tinted glasses. They’re lush people who are also messy as fuck and their environmental credentials (how many balloons did I see getting ‘released’) are poor. I’m not saying they’re worse than we are, as I say, we’re fairly similar. But you seem to have decided that what I’m saying isn’t possible because of what your friends have seen on holiday. Glad you had a better experience of cleanliness that I did.

I used to do this but someone pointed out they couldn’t see where the link was going and preferred to see just in case

Which I thought made sense so stopped converting

Completely agree, we’ve just got back from a week in fuerventura & have been saying this all week. I know it’s the rosé tinted specs of holiday but last time we went to the canaries everything was so much more expensive than uk but now it’s the opposite.
Imagine my fury when my family use up our toothpaste that I’d packed to save money so I have to buy it at an extortionate amount at a holiday resort. Then discover it’s 1/2 the price of uk? I know that’s very obscure but once we’d started comparing things we realised how badly off we are in uk now compared to abroad

Also @QuentininQuarantino ‘I’ve been to the Costa Brava once’ - precisely what the OP is doing, going for a trip then claiming various things about the place. I lived there and when you go to the same places day after day you see things differently. Yes they clean the beaches in summer or before big events. Rest of the year round? Rubbish left all over the shop. You’re seeing a tiny slice of something and claiming it’s standard living but it’s not.

perfectly said.

Haahaaaahaaaaahaaaahaaahaaahaaaahaaaahaaaa!!!

At the thought that once the boomer generation dies off pensioners (so those now in their 50s) will become magnanimous and generously vote to have their pension cut and to increase inheritance tax for the greater good!!