To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

There is plenty of dog shit on the pavement in Spain. We also had to buy a new tyre (€400) because ours was wrecked by a Spanish pothole.

Wouldn't that be a brilliant move? But people in the UK would rather stick with the outdated and failing NHS model - madness.

When people talk about net contributors and net takers, they often forget to factor in the value of the work itself. It isn’t just about how much income tax is paid to the Treasury.

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2009/dec/14/new-economics-foundation-social-value

@Handpickled I'm not disagreeing with you here, I just want to understand. What exactly is it that you noted on your visits to those countries which is much worse here?

It is hard to leave the country I have built my (country specific) career and life in. Where my children have grown up, where we have our home and family. And then to risk not being able to leave with DH. And I love the UK in many many ways, it's my home, it's where I actively chose to build my life because of many of the wonderful things it had/has to offer. So I would say that's quite tricky, and I am resentful that I have to be considering it. But if things keep going the way they are maybe I will have to find a way.

Maybe you are not getting those comments, or at least you are not picking up on them, becuase you are one of those who simply can't believe that the whole world doesn't regard the UK as a wonderful superpower. An attitude which I see a lot in the UK.

It is.

We don't like to pay a lot of tax, we like to have a safety net and we don't like overcrowded multi generational households.

We get what we pay for (but with corruption/inefficiency thrown in).

Handpicked - Why would we not get European tourists? There are some beautiful places in the UK.

So not at all like the UK system then.

because unfortunately no one like anyone to do better in this country especially the poor and middle.

people will argue that wanting to be paid more than 34k is selfish, argue against demands for better working conditions. arguing against unions so that workers can collectively bargain.

a place full of spite

I think you’re over egging that last line.

I think London is a fantastic city, it’s my home, I moved here anyway from o/s (although dual citizen) and get a lot out of it. I’ve also lived in US and Aus and think I’ve been pretty lucky as experiences go. So no it’s not as you say, I just don’t recognise this pity everywhere I go part.

But it probably has to do with how I personally feel about life here. I’m not itching to leave. I’m also surrounded by many nationalities who all seem pretty happy too. Maybe it’s the area impacting too.

@Nordicrain The world doesn't view us a superpower, you're right. But it doesn't automatically mean they pity us. There is a middle ground somewhere. Most people I speak to who live overseas neither envy or pity me for living in the UK, they are generally indifferent.

Yes things have really declined the last few years. Having said that, the situation is not great elsewhere either. I feel there are some aspects that are better in the UK, other aspects that are better abroad. I personally don't feel one country is 'the best'.
I am an EU citizen but live in the UK. I still feel my life is better here in the UK than it would be in my home country job wise and education wise for my children. I work with roughly 30 non UK colleagues and only one has left the UK. All the others prefer to stay as they feel living conditions are better here. Perhaps it's linked to our sector, I don't know, and perhaps people in other circumstances would benefit from living elsewhere.
Don't get me wrong - there are many things that need improving here but I personally wouldn't expect moving abroad would solve every issue, some for sure, but there may be others thrown in the mix. I guess it'll depend on what your priorities are?

In France sick pay is bugger all, as is maternity pay, maternity leave and refundancy pay.
Yes, the link to salary is there, which has not been the case since the 70s/80s in the UK.
Not only that, but in France, deductions albeit including pensions, are well above 20% and that's before tax. Once retired you still pay both tax and NI.
I did a course in pay/NI in France, and was shocked how poor some of the provision is, compared with how it's perceived.

Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous. I work for a global company. I speak to people across Europe and the US every day. Not one person talks about pitying the UK. In fact, the same issues come up at every global meeting; inflation and salary increases! These issues are being raised by staff in many different countries.

I know. There is an awful lot of whataboutism on this thread. Yes, there has been riots in France, yes there is gang violence in Sweden etc. But I don't think any other western European country struggles with basic things like no ambulances, no beds in hospitals, no housing available for the poor, teachers/doctors/nurses/train drivers striking on a regular basis etc. There are exeptional events happening in places, such as those mentioned above, but those countries aren't generally struggling to house or care for their residents the same way the UK is. Having a roof over ones head, having access to healthcare, having schools open, transport available are things that most, if not all, European countries can provide.

Well, funding triple lock pensions at the expense of other services isn’t a vote winner for other generations, is it?

You're on holiday in a city centre or holiday area where a lot of effort and money is put into keeping things looking attractive in order to continue attracting tourists. I was in central London earlier this week and it looks lovely: blossom in the parks, buses every few minutes, shiny skyscrapers everywhere.

There's a 13% unemployment rate in Spain 3.7% here. That's why it seems cheap to Brits. On average Spanish incomes are a bit lower than those in the UK and Spain has higher rates of poverty than the UK:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233910/poverty-rates-in-oecd-countries/

If you leave the touristy areas you will come across places which are very clearly not thriving and where people have exactly the same issues when it comes to heating their homes and putting food on the table as we do here.

Apparently the solution is so obvious that you won't tell us, but no one else in the country apparently knows what to do "exactly" either?

And that's because education standards are so low and we are stupid?

I think you have got a point there.

I'm pretty sure the Tories would love to move to a contribution based benefits system as described in the OP.

@BeautifulWar · Today 07:02
Yeah, just last week people were rioting and burning shit in the street...oh wait, that was Paris!

Not knocking France, but everywhere has their issues. I guess you're also going to nice places when you sporadically visit? The nice parts of London still look nice, Padstow etc. I very much doubt your comparison is like for like.

It's this kind of rubbish that gets us these corrupts governments. The French were rioting because they didn't want the retirement age raised from 62 to 64! It's 67 moving to 68 soon for us! We have had rights taken from us and no one bats an eyelid. I bet we have another conservative government again, "because bits of Padstow and London look nice". God help me, it would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

Well, there’s not a huge amount of evidence to support the “Britain is AMAZING11!1!!” argument, is there? It mainly seems to amount to “look, France had a strike too, and things are expensive in Spain too according to my mate’s aunty who was there 9 months ago”

this! they'd rather we all suffer including them, then life get better for anyone else or they get a perceived benefit .

Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous.

Yep

I don't agree. Have you seen unempoloyment rate in Spain?