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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a serious error and the resolution doesn’t really cut it

438 replies

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:01

Visited a well known chain restaurant, early in the week so it wasn’t busy, only about six tables tables taken. I was with my daughter, asked if I could have a table instead of a booth, as I have an assistance dog. My dog is a small/medium size, and was wearing his harness. I got asked if he was a guide dog, I said no an assistance dog. He then asked what that meant. I explained that the dog helps me with tasks that help me live my daily life. He then asked what exactly that meant. So I explained I have neurological damage after breaking my neck, and I can’t feel my fingers so drop things and the dog retrieves them. I also explained I have balance issues, so bending down without falling over is a problem. I then got asked if it was a guide dog again. I said no. He then said you can’t come in because it’s not a guide dog and you’re not blind!! I am not a confrontational person so I just said ok, we’ll just go the restaurant next door, (which is owned by the same group) as they always welcome me. The next day I rang head office and they admitted that what he did is unlawful, and they would do some staff training. Turning away a disabled person because of their equipment is a serious issue. Dogs are classed as auxiliary aids same as wheelchairs. I have been offered £20, I think they’ve got off lightly. What do mumsnetters think?

YABU-restaurants can choose who dines
YANBU-it’s discrimination

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ReplGirl · 13/04/2023 10:52

niugboo · 13/04/2023 10:41

They’re asking you if he’s a registered assistance dog and the answer is clearly no. Which means he was right to refuse. You buying a dog and teaching him to fetch makes him a dog that can fetch.

OP has stated he's registered. She just didn't show the paperwork (although in this case not sure if the waiter would even know what that is anyway)

LittleBlueBrioTrain · 13/04/2023 10:53

GoodChat · 13/04/2023 10:50

He's passed qualifications to be an assistance dog. He's not just well trained.

Show quote history

OP has gone into great detail about her dogs toileting habits but hasnt once confirmed that her dog has been assessed by a legitimate organisation to be given official assistance dog status.

She has said he is registered but that could be with anyone (not necessarily legit)

GoodChat · 13/04/2023 10:54

@LittleBlueBrioTrain at 08:44 she said he's registered. At 09:12 she says he's qualified.

ShowUs · 13/04/2023 10:54

Rosula · 13/04/2023 10:19

When it comes to demanding people produce proof of their disability, it's the start of a very slippery slope. Can you imagine? "Sorry, sir, for all I know you're in that wheelchair because you're lazy, unless you show me a badge I can't help you go up in the lift". "Sorry, madam, I know you claim to be pregnant, but unless you show me a badge I'm going to assume you're just lazy and I won't offer you a seat." "Unless you show me a badge, I'm going to assume that you're breathing badly for fun and I'm not going to help you find your inhaler".

If you want to use a disabled parking space then you need to show your blue badge.

I think showing proof is much better than standing there and having to explain yourself, especially as so many disabilities are not obvious.

There are many times when you have to show proof eg I.D to buy alcohol.

I don’t think showing proof is offensive.

Arapawa · 13/04/2023 10:56

They've apologised. I don't imagine it will happen again. You should have asked to speak to a manager when you were in the situation.

Leave it. Their training will improve.

PuttingOnTheKitsch · 13/04/2023 10:56

Rosula · 13/04/2023 10:28

You've missed the point, Starting on a path of refusing to recognise disability unless someone has a badge or a piece of paper is the start of a slippery slope that leads to that sort of conduct. Society expects a reasonable amount of sensitivity to disability, not demands for proof before making standard accommodations. Obviously there is no issue that OP is disabled, witness the fact that the next door restaurant within the same group has no problems with accommodating the dog and head office offered compensation.

Show quote history

Traffic Wardens "refuse to recognise disability" unless someone displays their relevant paperwork and everyone accepts that, because they know if that requirement didn't exist, cheeky people would use disabled parking facilities and which means that actually disabled people couldn't use them.

The same applies to assistance dogs. There should be a registration system, otherwise, people sticking a coat labelled "assistance dog" on their pet will cause problems for those who genuinely need them.

Redpriestandmozart · 13/04/2023 11:02

My dog is a registered therapy dog, we visit nursing homes, hospitals, schools etc. You'd be surprised at how many people have said to me 'Oh so you can take her into restaurants as she's a therapy dog' NO the answer is NO she is not an assistance dog. It does highlight that most of the general public either don't know the difference or are chancers and don't care.

Ofcourseshecan · 13/04/2023 11:05

useitorlose · 13/04/2023 08:09

Discrimination and against the law. Go to the press if you don't mind the publicity. They'll give you a lot more than £20 then, and I know it's not about the money.

I agree. Staff who don’t know the law should ask their manager before turning away someone with a disability. The dog’s harness was evidence. Saying sorry later isn’t good enough.

Tessisme · 13/04/2023 11:13

It was rude and insensitive of this person to press for so many personal, medical details. Then after being a nosey, officious jobsworth, he maintained his original (erroneous) stance. I think the apology from the restaurant and assurance of appropriate staff training is reasonable enough though. It all sounds like a very unpleasant experience.

ForeverGenX · 13/04/2023 11:13

’It’s not about money’ but actually the amount they offered is insulting. THEY made it about the money by offering a derisory amount. Yes it is about staff training but that does not help assuage the OP’s experience. Funny how other posters are so cavalier and dismissive about disability as a protected. The only way corporations respond is by hitting them where it hurts. Bad publicly or financial penalty. If they’re listed, they will hate the publicity as will their shareholders… They think you are a pushover who will be grateful for their £20 voucher. Probably because you are a middle aged woman with a disability so they think you’re not worth much. Had it been a glamorous celeb or a white entitled businessman, you can bet they would have offered an apology running into the hundreds. I don’t think they’ve learned their lesson and this offers no incentive to training staff beyond ‘let in people with assistance dogs’. Have you expressed dissatisfaction at the amount? Go to the local press. It will do them some good. They will keep your name out of it if you ask/insist (though may want a pic of your dog!).

Theluggage15 · 13/04/2023 11:17

I know someone who thought it was hilarious that to get out of their dog having to stay in the car on a ferry they said it was an assistance. I’m sure the staff thought it was hilarious when this dog shat all over the floor and they had to clear it up.

Why are you talking about training your dog OP? Guide dogs are trained by experts. Your dog sounds no different to any other dog.

Woodandsky · 13/04/2023 11:19

I have a friend with a medical assistance dog (properly trained and certified before anyone else jumps in). He is legally entitled to take him anywhere that he needs to go, just like a guide dog.

I've been with him when he's had issues and luckily he's very good at fighting his corner, carries copies of the legislation with him and if that doesn't work he calls the police, that tends to do it. It's not nice to have to assert yourself just to be able to lead something resembling a normal life but sometimes that's what you have to do, hopefully then it makes things a bit easier for the next person.

Oh and he regularly asks if anyone has allergies or a problem with dogs and usually no-one has but would of course sit away from them if they did.

theemmadilemma · 13/04/2023 11:20

I think £50-100 would have been much more appropriate.

But it does sound like staff training is needed and some idiot couldn't figure shit out for himself.

HagoftheNorth · 13/04/2023 11:22

I think the lovely thing to do would have been to invite you back for a meal - and that would also be a great way for their staff to meet an assistance dog and see him in action. Show as well as tell makes much better training, and they could have made it a really lovely occasion for the OP. Probably cheaper and more effective than alternative training, much more fun for all concerned and a nice gesture for their customer (who might then actually continue to be their customer!)

Dontcareforthehaters · 13/04/2023 11:23

I am sorry that you have had this experience. I think that the restaurant were right to acknowledge their wrong doing and put a plan in place (staff training) so that this won't be repeated in the future. However, I do think that they got away lightly, a better gesture would have been to offer a complimentary meal for you and your daughter. Discrimination such as this is actually a human rights issue and I can't help but feel that there would be far more outrage if the discrimination was aimed at other groups im society.

Helenloveslee4eva · 13/04/2023 11:25

Assistance dogs of this sort do not have legal standing in the uk I’m afraid.
guide dogs do

OhwhyOY · 13/04/2023 11:25

It's clearly discrimination but the challenge is I guess that you often see signs up saying 'no dogs except guide dogs' and probably some staff take that very literally. There needs to be better awareness around the range of assistance/aids that people with disabilities use and how to handle that. I wouldn't necessarily blame the staff member or restaurant for their ignorance as it sounds like you didn't explicitly tell them what the law was? Not that you should have to of course, but the reality of life is that lots of people don't know everything they should. Perhaps next time worth just asking politely to speak to the manager, and explaining that by law they should not be discriminating against people with assistance dogs whether it's a guide dog or for another purpose?

whyhelloo · 13/04/2023 11:29

I think for me it would depend on humiliation and confrontation level. If it was a humiliating and long drawn out thing, I would feel £20 is a bit cheeky and dismissive. If it was a quick no fuss conversation, I would think £20 is goodwill. That said, you shouldn't be "penalised" with a lesser compensation just because you politely didn't make a fuss, so I do feel the dilemma on this one

Yawningalldaylong · 13/04/2023 11:29

Theluggage15 · 13/04/2023 10:15

Anyone can call their dog an assistance dog. Only guide dogs are properly trained.

This is completely incorrect.

Woodandsky · 13/04/2023 11:35

Helenloveslee4eva · 13/04/2023 11:25

Assistance dogs of this sort do not have legal standing in the uk I’m afraid.
guide dogs do

That's incorrect

Yawningalldaylong · 13/04/2023 11:36

Helenloveslee4eva · 13/04/2023 11:25

Assistance dogs of this sort do not have legal standing in the uk I’m afraid.
guide dogs do

This is also incorrect.

MarkWithaC · 13/04/2023 11:40

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:10

He did go check with a mature woman who was at the bar. No the £20 doesn’t cover the meal.

Do you mean he checked and then came back still saying the dog wasn't permitted? If so then I assume she was more senior than him, and while he has the excuse (maybe) of being new/junior/not well trained, she should take more responsibility and be better-informed. Of course it follows that she/other senior staff should also be better at informing and training staff when it comes to their legal obligations.

I wouldn't accept the £20. I'd suggest instead what you say you would have offered: a free meal for two and money off a subsequent visit. Although I'd suggest more than 10%. If they baulk I'd say in that case they have lost my custom for good. You say you don’t mind explaining about your dog or discussing their disability, but, as you also say, many people might mind and no one should have to. The compensation I suggest reflects, IMO, the inconvenience and the embarrassment of having to discuss such personal matters.

niugboo · 13/04/2023 11:41

He can’t be registered. There’s no such thing in the UK. It’s a made up list.

niugboo · 13/04/2023 11:42

prove It - which organisation registers assistance dogs?