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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

From what sort of age would you assume a child in a queue is the customer?

127 replies

SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 16:16

Today I promised my DD she could choose a pudding at M&S. We put a few other bits in the trolley too. When we got to the till I saw they didn't have daffodils there (they usually do), so I gave DD a £20 note and told her to start unloading the shopping as soon as there was space. She knows how to do this. I went to get daffodils from the flower stand. When I got back, someone had come along and put her trolley in front of DD's. DD says the woman didn't say anything to her, just walked round her with the trolley.

DD is six; she is quite small for her age. Would you have assumed a child that age wasn't in the queue?

OP posts:
FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 20:48

SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 20:29

Yes, but I'm asking: at what sort of age would you expect a child to be paying? Should I be leaving it for a year or two? Or five? Or what would you reckon?

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Having her actually pay is a rather unusual thing to do. If you’re grabbing a forgotten item wouldn’t you need to be back before she pays? If you’re letting her play real life shops then that’s something else entirely. I worked on supermarket checkout for 2 years as a student and I’ve never seen anyone do this. That’s not a criticism, but I just don’t think it would occur to anyone that a child obviously too to be out by themselves would be paying. With that in mind I’d say a child would probably need to be around 10 to be taken seriously as a customer, because that’s probably the age that they’d be allowed to the shops solo.

BonjourCrisette · 12/04/2023 20:55

I think it's fine for your daughter to do this as long as she is comfortable with it. She obviously is, to some extent, in that she felt confident to be in the queue and to load the belt, pack and pay. But she didn't follow the usual behaviour of an adult in this situation - move trolley beside belt, start loading as soon as there is a tiny bit of space. So I imagine the woman behind thought she was waiting for an adult. I probably would too.

You just need to explain to your child that next time she needs to start unloading and move her trolley to the side of the belt as soon as possible because that is how it works. And I think it's fine for her to say 'I'm sorry, but I am in the queue and I was just about to start unloading my trolley'. I would be fine with a child explaining politely in this situation.

I would not assume a child was going to unload, pack and pay unless they were about 11 or older. I might ask. Lots wouldn't and you shouldn't assume they will.

Aprilx · 12/04/2023 21:04

SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 20:07

No, I wouldn't use her to save a place in the queue, I agree.

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Well then no issue. You posted the diagram about the same time as my last post and I hadn’t seen it. With the diagram, I would not even thought for a moment that your daughter was in the queue.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:10

ReadersD1gest · 12/04/2023 20:41

I would have thought about 10ish? Although it's not an exact science, of course... Around the age where it looks like they could have legitimately gone shopping on their own, I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️
A 6 year old was always going to have an adult waiting in the wings close by.

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Makes sense! Thanks.

OP posts:
melj1213 · 12/04/2023 21:11

Tbh as someone who worked on a checkout it's easier if you let the staff know what you're doing so they know when you'll be back and can help in these kinds of situations (not that we enjoy being pulled into customer disagreements but if we have all the info we can support an argument)

Sometimes people will say "I just need to get <item at the other end of the shop> a few seconds before the previous transaction is completed so if someone is waiting behind them with an item or two then I'll invite them forward (and explain the decision to keep the queue moving if the first customer comes back quicker than expected and the 'queue jumper's transaction isn't quite finished by the time they get back) but if they arrogantly push in with their couple of items ahead of a child waiting with a half unpacked trolley without asking then I will send them back to wait in the queue.

So in this case, I would have put the trolley to the side of the checkout and had DD stand behind it, ready to unpack on the belt when it freed up and then I'd have got the checkout operator's attention (even if they were chatting to the previous customer a quick "excuse me, sorry to interrupt" isn't rude in this situation) and said something like "I've realised I forgot my flowers, am I alright to nip and get them while DD unloads my shopping? I'll only be a minute but she knows what to do and I have left her with the money to pay if I'm not back"

That way, the staff member knows that you're just nipping for one forgotten item and you're not using your DD as a queue placeholder. It also means that if someone tries to push past, the staff member sees it and your DD doesn't say anything then the staff member can say "Excuse me, this customer is next, you need to join the queue". Alternatively, if they don't immediately see it happen, when you come back and say to the queue jumper "Excuse me, we were next. I told the lady here I was nipping to get some flowers while DD unpacked for me." then they can back this up if the queue jumper tries to argue against it.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:14

FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 20:48

Having her actually pay is a rather unusual thing to do. If you’re grabbing a forgotten item wouldn’t you need to be back before she pays? If you’re letting her play real life shops then that’s something else entirely. I worked on supermarket checkout for 2 years as a student and I’ve never seen anyone do this. That’s not a criticism, but I just don’t think it would occur to anyone that a child obviously too to be out by themselves would be paying. With that in mind I’d say a child would probably need to be around 10 to be taken seriously as a customer, because that’s probably the age that they’d be allowed to the shops solo.

Show quote history

Ah, ok. I didn't see it as playing, more as letting her learn how to do it. When I was little I remember being allowed to go and buy things at this age, and clearly it was mainly so I'd learn how to give the money rather than because I was totally alone.

I don't see why I'd need to be back before she pays? Before, what I've done is give her cash and let her go to the till for a specific item/items in a bookshop or our local Co-Op, and there, no one seemed especially surprised, but then I guess the size of shop is closer to the corner shops I remember from when I was a child.

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:17

melj1213 · 12/04/2023 21:11

Tbh as someone who worked on a checkout it's easier if you let the staff know what you're doing so they know when you'll be back and can help in these kinds of situations (not that we enjoy being pulled into customer disagreements but if we have all the info we can support an argument)

Sometimes people will say "I just need to get <item at the other end of the shop> a few seconds before the previous transaction is completed so if someone is waiting behind them with an item or two then I'll invite them forward (and explain the decision to keep the queue moving if the first customer comes back quicker than expected and the 'queue jumper's transaction isn't quite finished by the time they get back) but if they arrogantly push in with their couple of items ahead of a child waiting with a half unpacked trolley without asking then I will send them back to wait in the queue.

So in this case, I would have put the trolley to the side of the checkout and had DD stand behind it, ready to unpack on the belt when it freed up and then I'd have got the checkout operator's attention (even if they were chatting to the previous customer a quick "excuse me, sorry to interrupt" isn't rude in this situation) and said something like "I've realised I forgot my flowers, am I alright to nip and get them while DD unloads my shopping? I'll only be a minute but she knows what to do and I have left her with the money to pay if I'm not back"

That way, the staff member knows that you're just nipping for one forgotten item and you're not using your DD as a queue placeholder. It also means that if someone tries to push past, the staff member sees it and your DD doesn't say anything then the staff member can say "Excuse me, this customer is next, you need to join the queue". Alternatively, if they don't immediately see it happen, when you come back and say to the queue jumper "Excuse me, we were next. I told the lady here I was nipping to get some flowers while DD unpacked for me." then they can back this up if the queue jumper tries to argue against it.

That's a really good idea, thank you. I think probably I will just leave it for a couple of years anyway, but when I get back to it, I'll definitely do what you suggest and ask if it's ok for DD to sort things out. I wouldn't be fussed about the flowers - they were really just an afterthought and didn't matter.

OP posts:
FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 21:21

Wouldn’t you need to be back to pay for your flowers? Presumably you aren’t going to steal them. I guess you could pay for them separately but again, unusual thing to do, most people would sprint back to the checkout with the forgotten item before the main shop is done whether they were with their 6YO or their DH.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:26

FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 21:21

Wouldn’t you need to be back to pay for your flowers? Presumably you aren’t going to steal them. I guess you could pay for them separately but again, unusual thing to do, most people would sprint back to the checkout with the forgotten item before the main shop is done whether they were with their 6YO or their DH.

I said earlier, I'd pay for them separately. I could have walked straight through the self-service checkout with them; it wasn't busy. I wouldn't generally let DD be involved in any part of loading the belt/packing/paying if it were a busy situation where I'd want to rush anywhere.

OP posts:
melj1213 · 12/04/2023 21:27

I don't see why I'd need to be back before she pays? Before, what I've done is give her cash and let her go to the till for a specific item/items in a bookshop or our local Co-Op, and there, no one seemed especially surprised, but then I guess the size of shop is closer to the corner shops I remember from when I was a child.

Tbf in these situations it's often obvious that a child is being allowed to learn how to do things when they have a single item or a couple of items of age appropriate purchases (IE sweets/toys) in a small shop with a parent nearby to help if necessary. That's totally different to a child totally alone with a trolley of "shopping". The former is clearly a teaching moment, the latter could be a teaching moment but it could also be a parent using their child as a queue holder.

As a checkout operator I would always make time to help children learn the process of checking out their shopping but I would expect a parent to be available in case of any issue or if it was busy to help keep the queue moving (eg if the child is stood there with shopping not packed and they're taking an age to put their £4.73 change in their purse because they can't coordinate holding the money and opening their purse and then putting that purse in their bag all at teatime on a Friday when the queue is growing, I'd expect a parent to help them by doing the packing or taking the purse and money so the child can pack and basically speed up the process wherever possible)

helpfulperson · 12/04/2023 21:28

Thinking about it I would ask any child if they were waiting to be served because i would be wanting to model correct queue etiquette, whether I thought they were or not.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:30

melj1213 · 12/04/2023 21:27

I don't see why I'd need to be back before she pays? Before, what I've done is give her cash and let her go to the till for a specific item/items in a bookshop or our local Co-Op, and there, no one seemed especially surprised, but then I guess the size of shop is closer to the corner shops I remember from when I was a child.

Tbf in these situations it's often obvious that a child is being allowed to learn how to do things when they have a single item or a couple of items of age appropriate purchases (IE sweets/toys) in a small shop with a parent nearby to help if necessary. That's totally different to a child totally alone with a trolley of "shopping". The former is clearly a teaching moment, the latter could be a teaching moment but it could also be a parent using their child as a queue holder.

As a checkout operator I would always make time to help children learn the process of checking out their shopping but I would expect a parent to be available in case of any issue or if it was busy to help keep the queue moving (eg if the child is stood there with shopping not packed and they're taking an age to put their £4.73 change in their purse because they can't coordinate holding the money and opening their purse and then putting that purse in their bag all at teatime on a Friday when the queue is growing, I'd expect a parent to help them by doing the packing or taking the purse and money so the child can pack and basically speed up the process wherever possible)

Yes, she had a few items, and I was nearby - but I think you are right, I wasn't nearby enough. It wasn't busy, and the woman on the till does know us by sight and has seen DD pack and pay before.

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:31

helpfulperson · 12/04/2023 21:28

Thinking about it I would ask any child if they were waiting to be served because i would be wanting to model correct queue etiquette, whether I thought they were or not.

I guess that's what I was thinking when I started the thread! But then, reading the replies, I take the point that, sadly, some adults may feel worried about talking to a child they don't know, in case a parent overreacts. I think it's a really sad situation, but I definitely see that it's a potential worry.

OP posts:
Whatevs23 · 12/04/2023 21:33

SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 20:34

But I didn't. She had the money. There was no reason she couldn't have gone through the till before me.

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I misunderstood. I thought you were going to grab the flowers and would be back to add them to the rest of the shopping, rather than it being a separate transaction.

But it would never occur to me that a 6 year old by herself was going to conduct the transaction by herself. That's so young! I would have assumed, as I'm sure the other lady did, that she was waiting for her parent to return, and I would have had no qualms about going in front of her before you did return.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:35

Whatevs23 · 12/04/2023 21:33

I misunderstood. I thought you were going to grab the flowers and would be back to add them to the rest of the shopping, rather than it being a separate transaction.

But it would never occur to me that a 6 year old by herself was going to conduct the transaction by herself. That's so young! I would have assumed, as I'm sure the other lady did, that she was waiting for her parent to return, and I would have had no qualms about going in front of her before you did return.

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That's really helpful, thanks!

I think that Covid has really made me struggle to work out what is the norm. I'm so conscious DD missed out on all sorts of things that would have happened naturally. I looked back to my childhood and figured this was one of those experiences.

OP posts:
FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 21:37

And that’s fine, but what you’re doing isn’t typical. There’s nothing wrong with that at all and your DD sounds great but most people would stick to the single item at the corner shop for teaching kids about paying, most people when they forget an item rush back to the checkout and lots of people use kids as a placeholder. I just don’t think you can expect people to correctly interpret the situation; most will likely jump to the most obvious conclusion- the child is too young to be out alone so the parent must have forgotten something and therefore the kid is waiting, and 99% of the time that’s correct.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 12/04/2023 21:41

FlounderingFruitcake · 12/04/2023 21:37

And that’s fine, but what you’re doing isn’t typical. There’s nothing wrong with that at all and your DD sounds great but most people would stick to the single item at the corner shop for teaching kids about paying, most people when they forget an item rush back to the checkout and lots of people use kids as a placeholder. I just don’t think you can expect people to correctly interpret the situation; most will likely jump to the most obvious conclusion- the child is too young to be out alone so the parent must have forgotten something and therefore the kid is waiting, and 99% of the time that’s correct.

That's exactly why I'm asking! And the replies are helpful.

OP posts:
WandaWonder · 12/04/2023 22:03

Survey99 · 12/04/2023 16:27

Unless you asked the woman you don't know what happened. Your dd might have been a bit nervous and hanging back a bit and the woman thinking she was waiting for her parent never realised she was in the queue, there must have been a big enough gap if she managed to get herself and the trolley in. I wouldn't think anything of this to be honest.

Yes, no I would not think much of it really not everything happens the way people want it always there doesn't have to be some lengthy back story on the lady

RicStar · 12/04/2023 22:04

My 8 year old, who is good at math's still struggles a bit with change / coins at speed, I only let him do shopping tasks he can confidentially handle alone, so he will pop into a local shop with a couple of pounds to buy a drink / snack but I wouldn't expect him to pay at a supermarket with me out of sight, so I wouldn't expect that of a small 6 year old. I would have asked her though, I ask anyone vaguely near a till if they are in the queue.

JackiePlace · 12/04/2023 22:21

I would assume the child was in the queue.

A similar thing happened to me when I was about 10 years old. My mum came to find me and saw me being ignored while all the customers behind me were being served (it was a long queue for ice cream at an event). She soon sorted it out! ❤

SammyScrounge · 13/04/2023 01:58

The woman was a bully taking advantage of a little girl.

Whatsthefrequencykenny · 13/04/2023 21:37

There is no way the belt was still full when you got back. Your daughter was right behind the belt so the pervious customer had long since finished unloading and moved through. I don't believe when you returned there was still no space on the belt and your daughter was just waiting patiently for the belt to move forward. Why wouldn't the belt have moved at all while you went to get your things? I would assume that someone standing behind the belt and not moving through the cash and not unloading when space allows is not in line.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 13/04/2023 22:38

Whatsthefrequencykenny · 13/04/2023 21:37

There is no way the belt was still full when you got back. Your daughter was right behind the belt so the pervious customer had long since finished unloading and moved through. I don't believe when you returned there was still no space on the belt and your daughter was just waiting patiently for the belt to move forward. Why wouldn't the belt have moved at all while you went to get your things? I would assume that someone standing behind the belt and not moving through the cash and not unloading when space allows is not in line.

Huh?

When I left my daughter there was a woman with lots left to unload from her trolley. I only had to walk across the shop and back; it's not strange that she'd only just finished unloading when I got back.

DD said the other lady went in front of her before there was space clear on the belt, and I think she's probably telling the truth.

OP posts:
pinkstripeycat · 13/04/2023 22:41

I’d have asked her if she was in the queue if it wasn’t obvious. This person was a cf

Whatsthefrequencykenny · 13/04/2023 23:24

You said you had gotten to the till before you left. Since the other woman also couldn’t start unloading groceries given the belt was still too full, did you let her know you were next in line when you got back?