is my employer fair to decline this? Would yours be the same?

[amazonsl]

I’m not asking strictly speaking, obviously I know legally they can decline it. I’m a single mum (no relevance to the company obviously) with one dc and due to go back to work when they are one. I wanted to use my holiday to work three days a week for 6 months. This would have massively reduced nursery fees and would have helped me adjust. We work from home a lot but condensed working (4 days squeezed into 3) was also declined. Just wondered if other places would have declined this too? It’s a progressional place and I do have quite a bit of responsibility but I’m not at the top, either. I’m going to struggle so much as they’ve said I could go back four days but that doesn’t save much on nursery and im
not sure I will cope!

@aibuaibuaibu that is where my confusion came from as I read that the op worked full time and wanted to take 2 days leave but work would only allow her 1. I can see if she works 4 days then 2 days leave is unrealistic.

In my experience it is very usual at the end of mat leave that employees can have 6-8 weeks of leave I.e. 30-50 days.

I'm a manager, and I'd do my best to accommodate you because that's the way you retain valued staff. But only if it could be done without a negative impact on the needs of the business. That means that the decision would likely be role dependent. So, roles that involved covering a day to day task, no. Roles where there was set tasks that could be completed anytime, possibly. I'd also have to weigh up whether you taking two set days off every week prevented colleagues from ever having those days off. Also whether I might be setting a precedent that could lead to trouble in future.

Well it really depends. That would mean your work would take longer to get done and if anyone needed you on a day you weren't there that would be an issue. This really only works in a role where you work independent and don't impact anyone, and your work isn't time critical. Even condensed hours aren't always suitable as even though you're still doing the same hours it's a pain if you're needed and not there.

So one option around the actual taking of holiday situation for your own rest is to take unpaid parental leave as you can have up to 4 weeks per child per year. So if you can get say 3-4 months at 3 days a week and use your holiday for 2 then use unpaid parental in blocks of 1-2 weeks for your actual holiday. Assuming you can afford to be unpaid for that time. Need to give 21 days notice to take it. Up to 4 weeks per child per year to 18. More flexible if child is disabled I think- look on government website.

My work would probably have refused this arrangement for such a long time, and tbh as a manager I would refuse too. 20% additional workload can be somewhat compensated within the team, 40% cannot.
I also have moved to condensed hours after my return from mat' leave, and know how hard it can be to fit 90% into 4 days, so wouldn't agree for someone in my team to 80% in 3 days, sorry.

@Foreversearch OPs opening post stated "We work from home a lot but condensed working (4 days squeezed into 3) was also declined". Suggest she works four days.

I used to work with a woman who had a day as a rest day so her fella could work his min wage job and another had a rest day every week as well because she could.

I was very jealous.

It’s not an unreasonable request but they are not unreasonable to say no if it doesn’t work for them.

OP.... you not coming back?

Condensed days wouldn't be approved, but the holiday thing might be, depending on your manager. We don't have cover when we're on holiday though - we manage "accounts" so if we're on leave, the work just piles up. So if I were permitted to take a day a week for six months, I'd still have the full workload to squeeze in somewhere. In fact, I was on a phased return recently, after a family bereavement, working mornings only (ie 50% of my usual hours) and I still had the same workload as I normally do! Which is why my inbox has about 300 emails awaiting action in at any one time at the moment, instead of the 20-30 I had before my parent died.

This isn't quite right - you're entitled to 18 weeks per child, up until they're 18, and can take no more than 4 weeks per year for any child. You're not entitled to 4 weeks per child per year.

@WolfFoxHare
I think we are saying the exact same thing? I have said twice in my post ‘up to 4 weeks per child per year’ up to 18. I just haven’t outlined the entire government policy details ie to say 18 weeks in total or details on disability- instead I said refer to government website.

Sorry I don’t have time to outline the entire rules- it was more of a - did you know about this high level option - go and look at the detail type post.

@Leaningtowerofpisa apologies, when you said "4 weeks per child per year", that implies to me that you were saying you can have 4 weeks per child every year. You did say "up to 18" but it wasn't clear to me that you meant "up to 18 weeks total for each child" rather than "4 weeks per child per year until they turn 18". Obviously no-one expects you to outline the whole policy, but I was clarifying for the OP.

@WolfFoxHare Yes sorry I just left the total 18 weeks bit out as I’ve never found that relevant to me as only used 1-2 weeks a year with 2 kids but thinking about it - if the OP did use 4 weeks a year and only 1 child as I’d mentioned to replace annual leave it would be all used up in the first 4/5 years. So it’s definitely worth the clarification as you say.

I’d like to say to OP that it gets easier when they go to school but I actually found it just as challenging as no wrap around care- unless breakfast / after school clubs are good. So for me it’s either childminder or after school nanny- assuming you can get them dropped off in morning aswell.

The whole childcare system in the U.K. is just not set up well enough to support women going back to work - I reflected on OP’s post last night and all the pages of comments and felt quite sad that as mothers and women we have to shoulder this burden of complexity in how to make it all work.

Very true about the cost and inconvenience continuing all the way through primary school, really. I'm very lucky in that DH and I share all finances and he also does the bulk of drop offs and pick ups these days, so it isn't solely "my" problem - but then I feel guilty about it because he does miles more than most dads!

You should fill out a 'Statutory Flexible Working Request' form. They can't just say no, they have to give reasoning with it too. ACAS can help with this (just going through this myself for other reasons) Go here https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working it tells you loads and ACAS have guidelines they have to follow to reply, if you go through acas you can get proper help if you have to take it further. Hope this helps :)

It depends how much you earn. I was never entitled to anything.

Can you please spell out what the issue is?

I don't have children.

I can put the younger one into nursery/daycare at £x. Obviously that's an issue but the alternative is I earn less and stay at home.

When the child goes to primary school/free nursery what is the issue then? Is it during holidays than no one will look after the children? Wrap around care is available during term time?

Sorry I'm pregnant and no children.

They can say no, doesn't fit with business needs.

The OP is asking to take a day every week as annual leave. That's a different request and covered by the holiday policy.

I haven't read all the replies so apologies if this has been said already but it's your job OP, so you must know what level of involvement is necessary to deliver the projects that you work on.

They are saying you couldn't be as involved as you'd need to be. Do you disagree fundamentally with how they understand their business or your role? Can you make a case that shows they are incorrect about this (one that doesn't involve others covering for you/recruitment or a need to extend delivery deadlines)?

Or do you know in your heart of hearts that they are right? I can think of plenty of jobs in my organisation that genuinely could not be done part time.

No i meant they have to have defined reasons why. So it might be that the OP can and they are just being awkward and this might help.

They have to define why 'it doesnt fit the business needs' using defined guides. I think the OP said they even asked to consolidate their hours into less days. So this would help with that. But like you say for the holidays it will not, just maybe see if instead of holidays the OP hours can be condensed

The OP has not asked for flexible working. She has asked to take holiday in a certain way. They don’t have to give any reason for saying no to that (this was covered earlier in the thread).

And in fact she has already had her request to go part time down to 4 days per week agreed.

She already works four days.... everyone does

they’ve said I could go back four days but that doesn’t save much on nursery

No, everyone else doesn’t work 4 days as standard according to the OP. They have said she can.